Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

John 10:30~~I and the Father are one.”

John 12:32~~And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”

Note how Jesus and the Father have since switched places!

​

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, ​

and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:44​

While Jesus was being just as a man?
It took the Father to draw people to Himself.

But now that He has been our atonement?
And, as a result, has been lifted up to the heavenly places?

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms ​

in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:6​

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” John 12:32​

It is now Jesus Himself that does what the Father had been doing before Jesus was lifted up and glorified!

Jesus is now being God over all creation!

The Father now is simply sitting back and watching His Son rule the universe as God.

"Like Father, like Son."

In Christ.....

 

[Genez]

Well you asked for it, not me.

What was that video of yours that was not available after you posted it?
You won what championship?

 

[Cameron143]

To those who have believed.
Believed > then saved.



To those who have believed.
Believed > then saved.



We are discussing soteroiology.

John 5:40
“yet you refuse to COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE.”
The opposite must equally be true

Come to me to have life.

It is clear that the gift of regeneration comes after or subsequent to belief.

Seeks to undermine what is clearly stated in scripture with the theory that "regeneration precedes faith" by reading into verses or by using verses that are not even about soteriology.

Those who came to Him were already impacted by grace since none seek after Him otherwise. Faith itself comes from the Spirit employing the word of God. God is already at work in the individual to effectuate faith. Understanding is granted and the heart is circumcised as per Acts 2:37.

Also, the topic in view doesn't matter. If there isn't a clear verse on the subject, there isn't a clear verse.

 

[Kroogz]

What you will ultimately get is the basic [(God made me do it and it's because His Sovereignty desires and needs it)].

EXACTLY. Cut through all the word salads, intellectualism and long winded bloviating .....Even from the "masters." It always comes back to the basics.

Reformed/calvie/tulip theology falls flat on its face from the gates/basics.

Christ died for the whole world(ALL.) And Sin is finished.

 

[Kroogz]

Note how Jesus and the Father have since switched places!

​

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, ​

and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:44​

While Jesus was being just as a man?
It took the Father to draw people to Himself.

But now that He has been our atonement?
And, as a result, has been lifted up to the heavenly places?

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms ​

in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:6​

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” John 12:32​

It is now Jesus Himself that does what the Father had been doing before Jesus was lifted up and glorified!

Jesus is now being God over all creation!

The Father now is simply sitting back and watching His Son rule the universe as God.

"Like Father, like Son."

In Christ.....

Thank you @Genez!

 

[Magenta]

Those who came to Him were already impacted by grace since none seek after Him otherwise. Faith itself comes from the Spirit employing the word of God. God is already at work in the individual to effectuate faith. Understanding is granted and the heart is circumcised as per Acts 2:37.

Also, the topic in view doesn't matter. If there isn't a clear verse on the subject, there isn't a clear verse.

Well we know how there are zero verses articulating what they believe, but it does not stop their bellyaching.

In fact it could be because they have no verses articulating in any way what they believe that they must
come so hard against the truth of Scripture which shows their beliefs to be false, so dear to them is their
vain self-exalting doctrine, they refuse to relinquish it. They willfully turn a blind eye to truth to hold to error.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Really they just wish to silence me.

rolleyes ... no one wants to "silence" you, Magenta. Some prefer that you stop ripping verses from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them in your neverending attempts to "harmonize" ... some prefer that you stop conflating what is written in one verse with what is written in another verse and thereby completely revise what the Author of Scripture has written ...

like concluding that just because 1 Cor 1:18 and 1 Cor 2:14 contain the word "foolishness" ... both verses include the gospel, when as pointed out to you here ... it is clear from reading the context within which each verse is placed that God is not saying what you continuously claim.
.

 

[Cameron143]

James 1:18

“He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all He created.”
The order clearly laid out is as follows:

(quite incorrectly) teaches the word of truth will certainly be rejected by the unregenerate.

Therefore, how can the apostle say that the word may be the means of new birth?
Birth must precede the word if is true, and that is not what the text clearly indicates.

Regeneration preceding belief/faith is not found in scripture, the correct order, belief then regenerated, is clearly laid out over and over again.

So obviously a person can choose to respond to the power and truth of the Gospel message and not only that it is the very condition which God sets to receive the gift

"I" is out, therefore the rest of is unnecessary and equally untrue, especially the major big lie that Christ Jesus did not take on the sins of the whole world/all /every single person.

The verse you chose actually says we are birthed by the word of God. That is received prior to belief.

 

[Jordon]

What was that video of yours that was not available after you posted it?
You won what championship?

Yep at last, been working hard on that one.

World record at brands hatch

 

[Magenta]

The verse you chose actually says we are birthed by the word of God. That is received prior to belief.

We also know that they believe that man is born with everything he needs in order to come to believe, which we know according to Scripture is quite wrong, but again they refuse to acknowledge what Scripture actually says in favor of holding on to their false self-exalting doctrine.

 

[Jordon]

Honestly, not many posts in this particular discussion offer or align to the tenants given by Alexandria and perfected by Calvin and coronated by Lewis, surmized by Spurgeon, down to modern day past and present teachers.

In fact, you could not summarize the past and the modern to even find a happy medium within the context of these pages.

What you will ultimately get is the basic [(God made me do it and it's because His Sovereignty desires and needs it)].

So my stance is to oppose that kind of tripe if I am being honest. But if you read my posts you will also discover that I don't fall into the category of the definition of fwers that's being claimed. I am the outlier that sees truth in both idealisms. I use idealism because the misuse of Scripture is abusive from many sides of the spectrum.

Theologies are not always perfected over time, some don't need to be others do.

As long as the core tennants hold good that's all that matters, but where still called to examine any doctrine to see if aligns with the word of God.

Idealism in a way has it's good points, as in ideal world we would always accomplish a lot

 

[BillyBob]

Equal privilege and equal opportunity for ALL.

The Arminian has no problem seeing, or accepting, the exclusive love of God in the Old Testament for the nation of Israel, but fails to see the equally Biblical proposition of God’s love in the New Testament being exclusively for those whom He has chosen out of the world, and given to His Son.

 

[Rufus]

Depends what you mean by "unbeliever" for you were an unbeliever once.

Unbeliever = unregenerate.

 

[Rufus]

From a theological standing Israel was hardened just like Pharoah for refusing the Christ.

The Gentiles were predetermined to hear the gospel and respond.

Romans 9-11, is everything to do with why Israel failed and nothing to do with individual election.

Think national and you too can unlock the letter to the Romans.

As for the concept of, "freewill", not in this universe.

That's why the word GRACE appears in the text.

Wrong! Rom 9 starts off explaining why God's Word has not failed! And it's all about 5 individuals who Paul has singled out of the OT to explain exactly why God's Word hasn't failed!

We all know why Israel failed. They broke God's covenant.

 

[Rufus]

Deeds/human good/..........EVIL.

Sin is finished. This is why ALL can come to Him and trust in Him For their salvation.



Look around, ALL people have the opportunity for salvation. You don't need to be doomy and gloomy and think some can't be saved.

Have you never read:

1 Peter 4:18
18 And,

"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
NIV

 

[Rufus]

At what point is life given? The problem you have is you have people separated from God and without the Spirit accomplishing things that the Bible says they are incapable of. No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Spirit and Jesus builds His church by the revelation of the Father of who He is...Thou art the Christ.

In Natural Revelation (reality as MOST of us know it), life begins at conception -- in the womb. But in Special Revelation, life begins at birth. We have, therefore, in FWT, both types of revelation contradicting one another.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

But if you read my posts you will also discover that I don't fall into the category of the definition of fwers that's being claimed.

nobody who has posted in this thread falls into the category of the "definition of fwers that's being claimed" ... but you'll be branded as one anyway ... then if/when you call out someone who paints you as "fwer" ... they say they didn't call you "fwer" ... so much rationalization going on you'd think they took lessons directly from king Saul ...
.

 

[Rufus]

Hatred? Nah. Extreme bitterness? Yep. Look below.

Still, nothing that says, " Mankind cannot believe the Gospel that the Lord gave to mankind."

How silly? Send the Good news to folks who can never understand and believe the Good news.

This formula has been working for the elect for centuries because they were predestined to understand.

Don't forget: God gives grace only to the humble, which hardly characterizes this evil world. But He always resists the proud!

 

[Rufus]

nobody who has posted in this thread falls into the category of the "definition of fwers that's being claimed" ... but you'll be branded as one anyway ... then if/when you call out someone who paints you as "fwer" ... they say they didn't call you "fwer" ... so much rationalization going on you'd think they took lessons directly from king Saul ...
.

Pray tell: Why don't you define "FWer" for us. Are you not a FWer? Define yourself!

 

[Mem]

And Sin is finished.

God certainly didn't allow sin to prevail. People do that as much as they will, all the way to their destruction.