Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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I believe grace is more extensive and pervasive than you, but it all begins with grace.
All FWers, read and weep and wail and lament crocodile tears over the following passages I believe it was RDBD who vehemently objected to my thesis that God chose his elect in eternity and gave them his justifying grace also in eternity! And this implies that God's elect were always seen through the life and work of mankind's Federal Head -- Jesus Christ, which further implies that all of God's elect in HIS EYES were justified in eternity, having the righteousness of Christ imputed to them.
Eph 1:4
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
NIV
Not only did he choose all his adopted children in eternity, but God also gave his justifying grace to the elect in eternity.
2 Tim 1:9
9 who has saved us and called us to a holy life — not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time...
NIV
And not only was this justifying grace give to God's chosen people in eternity, but it was promised to them in eternity!
Titus 1:2
2 a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time...
NIV
And...the elect's names who have been recorded in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world did not, would not and could not worship the beast!
Rev 13:8
8 ...and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain.
ESV
There you have it, folks. God chose his people, gave his justifying grace to them, and promised it to them -- all in eternity! This is how God gives his grace to the humble. All that grace comes through the elect's Federal Head who was a meek, mild, lowly, humble Servant of God. It's no wonder at all that scripture teaches that God qualifies his people for his inheritance (Col 1:12) and that it's by His doing that all the elect are in Christ Jesus (1Cor 1:30)! Ultimately, NONE of us are in Christ by exercising our "freewill".
Eph 1:4
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
NIV
Not only did he choose all his adopted children in eternity, but God also gave his justifying grace to the elect in eternity.
2 Tim 1:9
9 who has saved us and called us to a holy life — not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time...
NIV
And not only was this justifying grace give to God's chosen people in eternity, but it was promised to them in eternity!
Titus 1:2
2 a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time...
NIV
And...the elect's names who have been recorded in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world did not, would not and could not worship the beast!
Rev 13:8
8 ...and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain.
ESV
There you have it, folks. God chose his people, gave his justifying grace to them, and promised it to them -- all in eternity! This is how God gives his grace to the humble. All that grace comes through the elect's Federal Head who was a meek, mild, lowly, humble Servant of God. It's no wonder at all that scripture teaches that God qualifies his people for his inheritance (Col 1:12) and that it's by His doing that all the elect are in Christ Jesus (1Cor 1:30)! Ultimately, NONE of us are in Christ by exercising our "freewill".
Your way to kind and tolerant to this person sir.
It's always nice to be kind to people including those who don't deserve it.
From where I'm standing I don't see anything at all that's warranted the insults he has thrown at Christians here, and the manner in which he has spoken to people has been very disrespectful.
I can't imagine this is how Christians behave. Christian I know and associate with are filled with kindness like you, think nice things and wouldn't dream of attacking there Christian brothers the way he does.
The only thing that attacks christians this way is the devil sir,
If I was you sir I would put him on ignore he will eventually stop trolling you.
While I do think your discernment is mostly right, the particular poster you refer to isn't evil; he is simply immature. And nothing is to be gained by putting anyone on ignore. I came to this site to broaden my understanding. One can learn from what is wrong as well as from what is right. Besides, people may be offensive, but we are not obligated to take offense.
What do you think we mean by free will? Do you think we see it as having some unlimited capacity to do whatever it wants?
Choices are made by the will. Our choices are governed only by the flesh if grace is not present to override the control of the flesh. Grace does not have to regenerate (save from death) a person in order for that person to make a choice for God as the soul is not inherently evil. It only becomes evil when the grace given is rejected over and over again.
People are born wrong, they are not born bad. We must learn good and evil. God cannot create a person evil anymore than He can create them good and He is with people from the first.
The "evil" that you and others here seem to want to pin on man from birth is in the flesh (body), not in the soul which is the source, the essence, of who we are. This is why a person doesn't have to be regenerated in order to make a positive response for God. If they have been responding positively to the Father's drawing, they will eventually come to Christ on presentation of the Gospel when they are ready to hear it. Jn.6:45
You are much like other posters who ascribe to others things they have not said. If you know of a post where I have ascribed "evil" to man, please post it.
I'll wait.
I have said grace always comes first and raises a man from the dead. How more "extensive and pervasive" do you want it to be? It reaches down to the depths and raises a man to the heights, so don't bother comparing your thoughts to mine less you find yourself thinking more highly of yourself than you ought.
I wonder if you even recognise that the problem of the will remains even for the believer, for those who do not walk after the Spirit are still bound to decisions based on the flesh. If it were not so, there would be no need for the warning not to grieve or quench the Spirit.
No-one can be free apart from the grace and truth in Christ. Jn.1:14
The problem is Cameron, it is as much as what you leave unsaid that leaves others to think what they do. You rarely explain anything in detail but mostly ask others to explain themselves while you're more inclined to walk away from the conversation when it gets too hard.
Instead of making the accusation, why didn't you take the time to correct my thinking on the matter? If man is not born evil, then what?
BTW while you're waiting, why don't you answer my question. You expect others to answer yours.
Sight tends to become myopic when you're looking down your nose all the time.
Raising someone from the dead I believe is simply the beginning of the grace God extends in salvation. I believe He also circumcises the heart.
I'm certainly acquainted with the problems Christians have with the flesh as I'm a sinner myself.
Your last statement I'm in total agreement with.
And one still can't "understand" his or any reformed/tulip/calvie/ theology. All by design.
I actually answer nearly all your questions until you become presumptive and rude. At that point, what's the point? Should I answer and be a contributing factor for your behavior?
Also, plenty of people here know exactly what I believe. They read the same posts you do. Perhaps it is you that doesn't actually read the posts carefully.
Man is born with a sinful nature and is separated from God.
Notice that some DO NOT obey......But still had the same privilege and opportunity.
The Lord Jesus Christ died for your sins........Not yours only but for the sins of the WHOLE world.
Don't curdle the milk.
Sure some don't. No activity of God is evidenced in them. Had they heard and understood and had their hearts been circumcised, they would have. That they didn't simply evidences this.
And I have explained several times the meaning of world to you. I've done what I can for you.
Through faith.Well, scripture says that we're also justified by grace. Connect the dots already. You FWers steadfastly claim that God bestows his grace upon each and every person on this planet, don't you? Then how can that GIFT of JUSTIFYING grace not save everyone!? You want your cake while you're also eating it!
You guys are just like the universalists. No matter what man does, good or bad , God will select you.
You say a few.
Universalists say all.
Rom 5:18
So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Adams Result~~ALL men.
The Lord Jesus Christs result~~All men.
Hold on there a second partner. You have relegated His Grace to second place compared to Adam.
Rom5:15
But the gracious gift is not like the offense. For if by the offense of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many.