Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

I think you would appreciate this, the church down the street from my home, Emmanuel Reformed Church, had on its sign this morning,

Jesus loves us

If I had not been driving I would have taken a picture.

they should have finished it with....

And NOT you!!!

Why should they have "finished it"? "Jesus loves us" is a thoroughly biblically qualified statement. I suppose you think the psalmists were in error too?

Ps 146:8c
8 ...the LORD loves the righteous.
NIV

And,

Ps 103:11
11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him;
ESV

And,

Ps 103:17a
17 But the steadfast love of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear him...
ESV

Your turn, lady. Why don't you give us a few texts that explicitly teach that God loves the wicked, loves sinners, loves evildoers, loves the rebellious, love fools, etc.? Should be a cakewalk for you....

 

[Magenta]

Why should they have "finished it"? "Jesus loves us" is a thoroughly biblically qualified statement.
I suppose you think the psalmists were in error too?

Ps 146:8c ...the LORD loves the righteous. NIV

And, Ps 103:11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him;
ESV

And, Ps 103:17a
17 But the steadfast love of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear him...
ESV

Your turn, lady. Why don't you give us a few texts that explicitly teach that God loves the wicked,
loves sinners, loves evildoers, loves the rebellious, love fools, etc.? Should be a cakewalk for you....

God hates wicked people. “The LORD tests the righteous, but His soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.” (Psalm 11 v 5) He hates wicked people and detests their ways (Proverbs 1 v 9), their thoughts (Proverbs 15 v 26), their worship (Proverbs 15 v 8), their actions (Proverbs 6 v 16-19), all who do wrong/workers of iniquity (Psalm 5 v 5). He destroys those who tell lies and abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit (Psalm 5 v 6). He singles out as a special object of His hatred the blasphemous deeds of the Nicolaitans, those who seduced God’s people with idolatry and sexual immorality. “Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.” (Revelation 2 v 6)

 

[Cameron143]

In Natural Revelation (reality as MOST of us know it), life begins at conception -- in the womb. But in Special Revelation, life begins at birth. We have, therefore, in FWT, both types of revelation contradicting one another.

I would say spiritual life begins at spiritual conception. Without spiritual life, how else would the pursuit of God and the things of God be sought after. Spiritual birth comes when the Spirit employs the word of God to produce faith...James 1;18. This is the moment of faith and spiritual birth, but the Spirit has already been at work, enabling the individual to seek after God as He begins to draw.

 

[Rufus]

I'm not sure you got the point exactly, however here it is, the point was God for-knew you, so he already knows if your going to believe or not.

What difference does it truly make if we then use the meaning spiritually dead can't hear or believe.

He isn't going to change his mind. As he for-knew your life before you where born.

you must understand that surely.

I think what people don't understand is they think there born and everyone is equally so everyone has a chance, well what there missing is, all tho they've only just been born God still knew there whole life.

There you see made easy for you.
So to summarise, there will be not one single person God has not for-knew, but there will be many that will not believe and all those people are incapable of believing despite God for-knowing them, and to summarise this, the ones who are chosen are the ones who where regenerated before faith was given.

What was the faith well that would be, being handed over to the son.

So does it really matter if we then say the spiritualy dead are incapable of hearing or believing.

I suppose that would depend on what you mean by "for-knew". What do you make of Mat 7:23? Or of 1Cor 8:3? Or of 2Tim 2:19?

 

[Rufus]

God hates wicked people. “The LORD tests the righteous, but His soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.” (Psalm 11 v 5) He hates wicked people and detests their ways (Proverbs 1 v 9), their thoughts (Proverbs 15 v 26), their worship (Proverbs 15 v 8), their actions (Proverbs 6 v 16-19), all who do wrong/workers of iniquity (Psalm 5 v 5). He destroys those who tell lies and abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit (Psalm 5 v 6). He singles out as a special object of His hatred the blasphemous deeds of the Nicolaitans, those who seduced God’s people with idolatry and sexual immorality. “Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.” (Revelation 2 v 6)

Now you've done it! I began the ruin of HIH's day with positive biblical statements of who precisely are objects of God's love. And now you come along and reveal who it is specifically that God hates, abhors, despises, etc. We'll end up causing this poor gal to drinking strong drink.

 

[Rufus]

Note how Jesus and the Father have since switched places!

​

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, ​

and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:44​

While Jesus was being just as a man?
It took the Father to draw people to Himself.

But now that He has been our atonement?
And, as a result, has been lifted up to the heavenly places?

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms ​

in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:6​

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself, [except for the proud.]” John 12:32​

It is now Jesus Himself that does what the Father had been doing before Jesus was lifted up and glorified!

Jesus is now being God over all creation!

The Father now is simply sitting back and watching His Son rule the universe as God.

"Like Father, like Son."

In Christ.....

FTFY!

 

[lrs68]

nobody who has posted in this thread falls into the category of the "definition of fwers that's being claimed" ... but you'll be branded as one anyway ... then if/when you call out someone who paints you as "fwer" ... they say they didn't call you "fwer" ... so much rationalization going on you'd think they took lessons directly from king Saul ...
.

Agreed %

 

[Magenta]

1Cor 8:3

Thank you for this... I have added it to the panel I am currently working on...

 

[Kroogz]

God certainly didn't allow sin to prevail. People do that as much as they will, all the way to their destruction.

God/ The Lord Jesus Christ finished sin. There are consequences for our continued sin. Judgement for sin is finished. Jesus propitiated the Father.

EVIL/ human good is not finished.....I save myself. I will be good enough. Well, I was justified through my own actions. I do not believe, because I did "good." I went to church. My "good" outweighs my bad. How could a loving God.......

Sin does not send people to the Lake of Fire. Deeds/Human good/Evil/"My" way rather than trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.......Sends people to the Lake of Fire.

Religion and being "good enough" sends people to the lake of Fire. Sin is finished.......If we justify ourselves in any way, we had better take a step back.

 

[Kroogz]

The Arminian has no problem seeing, or accepting, the exclusive love of God in the Old Testament for the nation of Israel, but fails to see the equally Biblical proposition of God’s love in the New Testament being exclusively for those whom He has chosen out of the world, and given to His Son.

Good Lord! The nation of Israel had the same objective........Send the Gospel to the world. They FAILED. Just like the reformed theology patrons do today.

 

[Cameron143]

Good Lord! The nation of Israel had the same objective........Send the Gospel to the world. They FAILED. Just like the reformed theology patrons do today.

Is that what was happening as they marched around Jericho? That was an evangelizing campaign?

 

[Kroogz]

Is that what was happening as they marched around Jericho? That was an evangelizing campaign?

Crisis evangelism.

Grace in a crisis. Sad that you cannot see this........You seem to want em FRIED.

 

[Kroogz]

This formula has been working for the elect for centuries because they were predestined to understand.

Don't forget: God gives grace only to the humble, which hardly characterizes this evil world. But He always resists the proud!

You are incorrigible. Your theology is incorrigible.

The natural man cannot understand the things of God.........PROUD.

Yet, you received His Grace.

 

[Cameron143]

Crisis evangelism.

Grace in a crisis. Sad that you cannot see this........You seem to want em FRIED.

While I would agree that salvation often comes through judgment, evangelism is never practiced. The 3 Hebrew children were delivered from the furnace, but those who cast them in did not escape judgment. Israel was delivered through the sea, but the Egyptians didn't escape judgment. And 1 family escaped the assault on Jericho, but the rest perished. Pretty unsuccessful campaign if evangelism was the goal.

 

[Genez]

Yep at last, been working hard on that one.

World record at brands hatch

How much RAM does your car have?

 

[Kroogz]

Why should they have "finished it"? "Jesus loves us" is a thoroughly biblically qualified statement. I suppose you think the psalmists were in error too?

Ps 146:8c
8 ...the LORD loves the righteous.
NIV

And,

Ps 103:11
11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him;
ESV

And,

Ps 103:17a
17 But the steadfast love of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear him...
ESV

Your turn, lady. Why don't you give us a few texts that explicitly teach that God loves the wicked, loves sinners, loves evildoers, loves the rebellious, love fools, etc.? Should be a cakewalk for you....

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.
Rom 5:8
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Repeat: Right out of the gate you fall flat on your face.

 

[Kroogz]

While I would agree that salvation often comes through judgment, evangelism is never practiced. The 3 Hebrew children were delivered from the furnace, but those who cast them in did not escape judgment. Israel was delivered through the sea, but the Egyptians didn't escape judgment. And 1 family escaped the assault on Jericho, but the rest perished. Pretty unsuccessful campaign if evangelism was the goal.

Physical death is not synonymous with unsaved/no eternal life.

 

[Genez]

FTFY!

Proud people can get saved. At the moment of salvation they were humbled.

But, after a time settled in, they sinned, lost the filling of the Spirit, and reverted back to their old ways of doing things

Believers can result in becoming proud people again.
They will be saved.

 

[Cameron143]

Physical death is not synonymous with unsaved/no eternal life.

Physical death, by virtue of it being part of the natural world, informs our understanding of spiritual death...Romans 1:19-20.

 

[Rufus]

Thank you for this... I have added it to the panel I am currently working on...

You're quite welcome. Of course, Jn 10 has some very explicit statements along the same lines. God only personally, intimately and covenantly knows His own people. The rest in the world, He has no such knowledge of. See also Ex 33:12, 17 wherein this truth is also taught.