Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[reneweddaybyday]

In response, I don't normally use the phrase "free will" other than to go along with some of these posts and threads. The "free" part has way too much philosophical baggage that comes into an already chaotic discussion.

exactly ...

Do you believe man has volition?

yes ... mankind can utilize/exercise all that God has placed within man ... faith ... intellect ... emotions ... senses ... conscience ... I'm sure there are more attributes.

Do you believe volition is involved in suppressing truth?

yes ... and as we continue to suppress the truth in unrighteousness, we move further and further away from God. What is God supposed to do with the one who has convinced him/herself that there is no God? ... or with those who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them (Rom 1:32)?

Do you believe volition is involved in changing the mind and believing and obeying the Truth?

yes ... so long as the Truth is told to the one believing. I have told you that we either believe truth or lies. We believe what we read or hear or see ... we don't just make up something and believe it.

If I believe a lie and someone comes along and tells me the truth, I can either hold to the lie ... or change my mind about the lie and believe the truth.

On the other hand, if I believe truth and someone comes along and tells me a lie, I can either hold to the truth ... or change my mind about the truth and believe the lie.

We have to be on guard against the onslaught of the adversary ... I love the verse Prove all things; hold fast that which is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

It is so important for us to study God's Word ... believe God's Word ... digest God's Word ... bring everything that comes to our mind to the Scriptures ... test all things ... hold fast that which lines up with Scripture ... everything else ... let it go ... don't allow that which is not true to turn us from that which is true.

Scripture warns us about those who would come in and teach half truths and/or outright falsehoods ...
.

 

[sawdust]

Has a criminal ever been forced to accept freedom?

Ever seen the movie "The Shawshank Redemption"? Those not prepared for freedom can't always handle it.

 

[Genez]

In other words, regeneration?

Actually. Not yet regeneration.
... It is what takes place just before receiving regeneration.

Something from the Gospel is presented.
Then the Holy Spirit will take up the slack for our lacking a human spirit.
God fully knowing our frame, knows what we need to be presented to understand.
Thus doing, making us able to see just enough of what God required for us personally to test our volition.

If God sees we like the idea and enjoy believing what we were made able to believe?
He stamps us as passing quality control, and installs our human spirit to become regenerated.

Others who show hatred instead of enjoyment?
Those ones never pass from spiritual death into life.


I hope that is clear enough?

 

[sawdust]

I am not sure on this, scripture states we are born spiritually dead (spiritual separated from God) due to Adam's sin, can some people become totally depraved because of this yes.. we can call them psychopaths.
Perhaps you are speaking about Prevenient grace?

I was simply speaking of the nature and character of God who loves what He created and refuses to see it go down the gurgler, therefore is the initiator of redemption, reconciliation and forgiveness.

 

[sawdust]

Where does Scripture state this "spiritually dead"?

What does "spiritually dead" mean?

If I may ask one question first. Is death only physical? When Jesus said "let the dead bury the dead" what did He mean?

Oops that was actually two questions.
Forgive me.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Grace makes alive and Grace gives Faith as well to believe in Christ for having saved them

.... doubling down on error ...

again, read with discernment ...

Ephesians 2:4-5 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )

God makes alive ... by grace through faith ...

try reading the red words ...

Ephesians 2:4-5 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )

God has made us alive together with Christ ...
.

 

[sawdust]

Of course they have need of the Gospel if they are saved, for its the good news of their salvation, duh Thats wonderful news to find out you are saved.

Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Now how is it YOUR SALVATION if you not saved yet and lost ? Think

How about you think?

If the Gospel is our salvation (and it is, Rom.1:16 ) then why would one need to hear the Gospel after they are saved?

To be spiritually alive means you have been saved from death. You don't need to be saved again. You can't be made any more spiritually alive. Alive is alive!

Your theology has this order: grace, saved, Gospel, saved, faith, believe.

 

[sawdust]

@sawdust



Even worse, man is born dead in trespasses and sins, with a sinful nature that opposes God

A sinful nature which is in the flesh, not the soul. To say it is in the soul is to accuse God of creating evil souls.

 

[sawdust]

This is my understanding also.

@Magenta drives this point home......But for some reason she cannot see the Grace that He extends to ALL.

If they truly understood they would realise the evil they accuse God of but they don't so "Father forgive them for they know not what they do".

 

[Burn1986]

God's will was that the children of Israel were to inhabit the promised land and God brought them through with His mighty outstretched Arm. However, when they got to the entrance to the promised land, they refused to go in, even though there were two witnesses giving truthful testimony concerning God's ability to overcome any obstacles ... judgment was announced after which God relented at the plea of Moses ... so the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness during which time they were fed ... their shoes and clothing did not wear out ... within the camp, there were those who believed and those who did not believe ...

fwiw ... I do not hold to the term "free will" ... we either believe or do not believe. God gives ample opportunities for unbelievers to believe. If a person does not believe it is due to him or her having suppressed the truth in unrighteousness, which is something God allows. Mankind suppressing the truth in unrighteousness does not in any way, shape, or form, affect the sovereignty of God. God is still God whether someone believes it or does not believe it. God's Word holds true whether someone believes it or does not believe it.
.

I actually agree. Well said.

 

[sawdust]

Godly repentance comes from a godly source, the new birth and new heart, its not found in the old man nature, only that which brings death

Yeah, I said it was the work of the Holy Spirit so ... don't know what you're arguing against.

 

[Rufus]

Such an excellent, probing question to my post. Bravo, keep up the good work!

Too bad you're not up to the task to provide an equally excellent answer. But I'm not surprised...

 

[Genez]

More accurately inferior exegesis coupled with heaps of denial, deflection, monotonous sloganeering. Then smothered with a smokescreen of endlessly repetitive rabbit trail questions.

Rabbit Trails????!




EHhh! What's Up DOC-trine?

 

[BillyBob]

Actually. Not yet regeneration.
... It is what takes place just before receiving regeneration.

Something from the Gospel is presented.
Then the Holy Spirit will take up the slack for our lacking a human spirit.
God fully knowing our frame, knows what we need to be presented to understand.
Thus doing, making us able to see just enough of what God required for us personally to test our volition.

If God sees we like the idea and enjoy believing what we were made able to believe?
He stamps us as passing quality control, and installs our human spirit to become regenerated.

Others who show hatred instead of enjoyment?
Those ones never pass from spiritual death into life.


I hope that is clear enough?

Yes, you clearly stated your belief. Thank you....

 

[Rufus]

I have always wondered: how do the calvies know FOR SURE that they got lucky in the pre-birth lottery?

I have a better question: How does a professing Christian even manage to believe in luck? Is Luck one of your gods?

 

[Rufus]

So very true.

To think God is just selecting people randomly throughout history for spiritual salvation and leaving others in their sin and defending this as the mystery of a sovereign God, it is shocking how this is promulgated as Biblical.

Life is so unfair, isn't it? God has every right to do with His grace and the people upon this earth, whom He owns, as He sees fit. Read the Parable of the Workers some day...perhaps you'll learn something.

 

[Rufus]

That's the job of Grace to take over to make us who are unable, to be able while under the influence of God's power.

​

Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, ​

“My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” ​

Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s ​

power may rest on me." 2 Corinthians 12:8-9​

Grace is a real effectual power from God to enable us to do what is impossible for us to do.

Without God's grace?

No one could believe and be saved!


.

Since when have you believed in the efficacy of God's grace? OR....have you redefined "effectual" to mean something that it's not?

 

[BillyBob]

Life is so unfair, isn't it? God has every right to do with His grace and the people upon this earth, whom He owns, as He sees fit. Read the Parable of the Workers some day...perhaps you'll learn something.

I think the FW'ers all have Bibles which are triple spaced. That leaves a lot of room for them to fill in the blanks to make it say what they want to hear.

 

[Rufus]

How about you think?

If the Gospel is our salvation (and it is, Rom.1:16 ) then why would one need to hear the Gospel after they are saved?

To be spiritually alive means you have been saved from death. You don't need to be saved again. You can't be made any more spiritually alive. Alive is alive!

Your theology has this order: grace, saved, Gospel, saved, faith, believe.

Because LIFE (one of God's gifts) leads to Faith (another of His gifts) and Faith leads to Justification. Why don't you take a shot at answering my question in 7383?

 

[Rufus]

I think the FW'ers all have Bibles which are triple spaced. That leaves a lot of room for them to fill in the blanks to make it say what they want to hear.

And I think most of them have ripped chapter 9 of Romans out of their bibles.