That was a quote from Cameron in a point we had agreed on I was responding to it below in the same comment . Sorry for the confusion
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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You're not even responding to what I am actually saying. No-one has even remotely suggested life comes from anyone but God but you have a man regenerated (saved) in order to hear the Gospel (which saves him). You're totally blind to your own error.
My take on foreknowledge is that God certainly knows all which will take place within His creation. But, He does not make decisions based on this foreknowledge. He made a decision long ago about all that would take place according to the good pleasure of His will.
Therefore, what He foreknew will certainly take place.
Col 1:16
No, Life does not save him. Life LEADS to salvation (new birth). Adam was created with spiritual life, yet he sinned. (For your info, only the living can die.) The Life he had did not save him from sinning. This is why there is no text in the bible that says that Life, as important as it is, justifies a sinner.
Take the blind man in Jn. 9 -- all his life he walked in physical Darkness -- just as all Adam's progeny walk in spiritual blindness from birth. Did he confess and worship Christ before or after Jesus delivered/rescued him from the Darkness of his blindness?
Correct! Foreknowledge is based on divine prerogative. This is why Rom 8:29 doesn't say what FWers try to make it say . And it's why Act 2:23 does say what it does -- that God's plan/purpose precedes his foreknowledge.
interesting thoughts thank you. For sharing .
“I believe God knowing what people will do etc is from His omniscience and that informs Him who the believers are and who are not.”
i agree with this statement ^^^above.
The whole point of saying this is that in my opinion is ( that’s all it is just another opinion on the internet ) that any choosing he’s done is because he has foreknowledge of this day and it’s result
“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
Romans 2:6-11 NIV
Do you see what I mean at all ? It doesn’t change the determining factor because he knows before. If that’s true and it’s repeated many times and also god chose people before the beginning ….he’s done it based upon his foreknowledge of the outcome from the beginning
this doesn’t argue against free Will or man making choices at all . it’s just meaning that god knows beforehand the outcome of each person according to his judgements . And so any choices he’s made would be based upon his understanding and knowledge of all things primarily for this subject the individuals beliefs and actions . Or “who would truly accept and believe the gospel when they hear it “
god knowing who those people would be prior , doesn’t change our place or perspective or duty in any way or take away our choice ….. it’s just an acknowledgement that God does indeed know all things even before they are and because of that he’s able to work all those things to bring to pass his plan in revelation 21 that actually began in genesis 1
“I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’”
Isaiah 46:10 NIV
His purposes will stand regardless of man’s actions because he has foreknowledge and works his purposes and Will according to and guided by that ultimate godly and divine wisdom .
He’s already planned how to deal with the issues he knows will arise of man. and he’s also made it known in his word from ancient times what will come like for instance this
“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
Revelation 22:12 KJV
“Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,”
Romans 2:6-8
“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.”
Galatians 6:7-8 KJV
“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
John 5:28-29 KJV
I believe this is god telling mankind consistantly a message that is coming from his foreknowledge of what is ahead for mankind .
if he already knows who’s going to be saved it changes nothing from our perspective is what my position is
there’s still this interaction
“And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. ( he’s calling them to repent )
If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.”
Revelation 3:1-3, 5-6 KJV
“No-one has even remotely suggested life comes from anyone but God but you have a man regenerated (saved) in order to hear the Gospel (which saves him). “
amen that’s the issue I see as well it clearly says this
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
but the position is dyslexic in that it receives the message like this
“ whoever is already chosen and saved , will believe the gospel and doesn’t need to get baptized. But Whoever is already damned from the beginning won’t be able to hear and believe the gospel “
I think a lot of people would find it to be backwards …..almost diametrically so really
You hit the nail On the head there
If a believer walks in the Spirit and by God's grace evades the whiles of the unbeliever?
It will be the unbeliever who calls him lucky.
Naw that’s a silly thing to say he hasn’t failed you just have the wrong idea
He succeeded because his Will was to make a way for all the world to be saved if they would believe in his only begotten son who suffered and died to win thier heart and save tbier souls from sin and death
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
to then say if they reject him or if he gives them feeedom to choose he failed is really a bizarre idea . You see that because you think we have no choice and gods a dictator . The gospel is an invite to sinners to come home ots Jesus seeking to save the lost
Life is so unfair, isn't it?God has every right to do with His grace and the people upon this earth, whom He owns, as He sees fit. Read the Parable of the Workers some day...perhaps you'll learn something.
..writes the supposed beneficiary
Life is so unfair, isn't it?
The workers agreed to those wages. He didnt pay them any more or less than what they agreed to
Lol. That some kind of dazzling comeback Rufus.
But I digress. Your pre-birth lottery necessitates luck. My conscious free will choice requires none.
No mate, being made alive is our salvation. We are saved by death from being made alive. What on earth do you think regeneration is if it is not being made alive?
It's not about saving us from sinning, it's about saving us from death. The wages of sin is death, not more sinning (although more sinning will occur because we are dead).
Strewth, no wonder I can't make head nor tail of your theology, it's weird. Who ever heard of having life but you don't have life till you have life?
No mate, being made alive is our salvation. We are saved by death from being made alive. What on earth do you think regeneration is if it is not being made alive?
It's not about saving us from sinning, it's about saving us from death. The wages of sin is death, not more sinning (although more sinning will occur because we are dead).
Strewth, no wonder I can't make head nor tail of your theology, it's weird. Who ever heard of having life but you don't have life till you have life?
Quoting myself to correct my dyslexia.
Second sentence: "we are saved from death by being made alive.
Looks normal to me. Nothing like a good dust up to get the nose into the books and double or even triple check the study notes.
That is one way of looking at it, the sword sharpens the sword.Looks normal to me. Nothing like a good dust up to get the nose into the books and double or even triple check the study notes.