John 15 verse 5c; Philippians 2 verse 13 ~ Apart from Me you can do nothing. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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John 15 verse 5c; Philippians 2 verse 13 ~ Apart from Me you can do nothing. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
But without faith it is impossible to [walk with God and] please Him, for whoever comes [near] to God must [necessarily] believe that God exists and that He rewards those who [earnestly and diligently] seek Him.
Hebrews 11:6 AMP
I have always wondered: how do the calvies know FOR SURE that they got lucky in the pre-birth lottery?
you asked one question ... I answered ... you do not like the answer I gave, but really have no concise rebuttal to the answer ... so you ask more questions ... and it will go on ad nauseam ... all because you did not like the answer I provided to the first question ... shrug ...
as far as "fulfillment of the promises of the Abrahamic Covenant in this New Covenant age" ... please tell me
Genesis 15:18-21 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.
Has this promise been fulfilled ... if so, when?
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cc: @HeIsHere @Genez @cv5 and whoever may care.
Sorry to be off-point with your post, but a few of us were discussing earlier this concept of repentance as a translation of metanoia which at root speaks of a change of mind.
I was just tracking this word "repent" through history and when and why it began being the word used for the Greek word that means change of mind. "Repent" does not mean change of mind.
Also, this verse as quoted above sounds like being emotionally sorrowful produces repentance and then the word repent itself speaks of emotional sorrow. So, we have the sorrow issue working through this entire verse as translated in early reformation times.
But here's the issue:
- Repent:
- The Greek has metanoia which speaks of a change of mind.
- In the earliest Latin called the Vetus Latina it was being translated in at least 2 different ways and regionally which seems to show that religious practices were seeping into translations. One way was close to metanoia. Another was the concept of a moral action closer to Latin theology.
- From there some of the Latin baggage re: "repentance" can be seen in articles like this one.
- Some modern translators are trying to get back to "change the mind".
- RE: "sorrow"
- The Greek has lupē which BDAG defines as pain of mind or spirit, grief, sorrow, affliction. A few other lexicons I glanced at focus more on this pain and don't mention sorrow.
- This word in the LXX goes back to usage in Gen3:16-17 and the curse on the man & the woman. In the early KJV it's being translated as "sorrow". In newer translations as "pain" or "painful toil".
- I suppose some will want to stay with being sorrowful, but this sense of pain in mind or spirit makes much more sense to me.
- God cursed the man and the woman and the planet.
- Men and women have been in pain of mind or spirit since then
- This leads to a change of mind for salvation and who would afterward want to change their mind again and go back to the pain of mind or spirit 2Cor7:10?
- I don't know about any of you but this pain in mind or spirit is one of the things that did lead me to the change of mind to believe in Christ.
All this baggage of emotion and doing penance clouds the issue IMO.
In discussing things like this in the past with others who do translations, I've had several talks that centered around thoughts that the reformation from Romanism did not go far enough and we're still working at it after half a millennium. We retain a lot of baggage in our translations for many reasons at this point. And by "reformation" I'm not speaking of any ism. I speak only of translations consistent with the original language of the Text apart from all the isms and systems and without a care in the world about the amount of liturgy or hymns or anything else that we would need to be rid of or to change for proper language and thought.
Fair enough but words mean what they mean.
repent - https://biblehub.com/greek/3340.htm
confess - https://biblehub.com/greek/3670.htm
God's will was that the children of Israel were to inhabit the promised land and God brought them through with His mighty outstretched Arm. However, when they got to the entrance to the promised land, they refused to go in, even though there were two witnesses giving truthful testimony concerning God's ability to overcome any obstacles ... judgment was announced after which God relented at the plea of Moses ... so the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness during which time they were fed ... their shoes and clothing did not wear out ... within the camp, there were those who believed and those who did not believe ...
fwiw ... I do not hold to the term "free will" ... we either believe or do not believe. God gives ample opportunities for unbelievers to believe. If a person does not believe it is due to him or her having suppressed the truth in unrighteousness, which is something God allows. Mankind suppressing the truth in unrighteousness does not in any way, shape, or form, affect the sovereignty of God. God is still God whether someone believes it or does not believe it. God's Word holds true whether someone believes it or does not believe it.
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I will up the ante:
How can a non-choice fulfill the Biblical requirements set forth to be saved?
Phew ! I thought we got off track somehow lol thanks a lot for clarifying and Agreed
And to this
“If a believer continues in a life of sin after salvation ( conversion ) .....There are major consequences”
i would also agree and quote this
“If we willfully keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?”
Hebrews 10:26-29
Sounds pretty severe indeed
“Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction;
whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.”
Galatians 6:7-9 NIV
“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die;
but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.”
Romans 8:12-
“So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:16, 19-21 NIV
It’s good to note he’s been telling them this many times before
... taken out of context ... conflated with other verses taken out of context ... then used as a bludgeon ...
James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
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Lynn attested to that. You may remember her as depleted and I forget her other
user name. At what cost? She said the same was true of her husband John.
You have been here that long and had at least three user names.
This is the "Gospel" that the calvies believe.
When was the last time you saw a calvie post about the Life,death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ?
I would agree that the actual word "metanoia" does not in and of itself contain any sense of sorrow unless it is part of the context where the word it used.
Agree the baggage does not help and has led to the Gospel not being accurately stated .