Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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You build doctrine on zero verses. Free will is a philosophical fabrication with no basis in Scripture aside from being set free in Jesus. Everything spoken of the unregenerated person points to a will that is enslaved and taken captive to do the will of the devil. In his natural state, man is a not only opposed to the spiritual things of God but a God hater. Man has enthroned himself since Adam. But Pelagian heretics disregard much of what is said of man to uphold their vain erroneous man-exalting idol. Disregard, contradict, and outright deny.
I have another question for all you freewheeling FWers that pertains to this text:
2 Thess 1:8-10
8 ...in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, 10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.
ESV
I think most of us can understand the bolded part about not obeying the gospel of Christ, but what's the big deal about those who don't know God? How come Paul lumped them in with those who reject the gospel? It appears that having no true personal knowledge of God is just as serious as not obeying the gospel. What sayest, thou, FWers?
2 Thess 1:8-10
8 ...in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, 10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.
ESV
I think most of us can understand the bolded part about not obeying the gospel of Christ, but what's the big deal about those who don't know God? How come Paul lumped them in with those who reject the gospel? It appears that having no true personal knowledge of God is just as serious as not obeying the gospel. What sayest, thou, FWers?
God created all things agreed .
“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
Genesis 1:31 KJV
“In doing so and as a result of doing so, does God not know in His act of creating how all creation will respond?”
this is one of those instances where I said it’s really hard for me to follow what your saying . Not a dig at you just I’m not that bright and can’t understand what you are actually asking . But brother I’ve said god has foreknowledge he knows things beforehand.
If god knew the people who would believe the gospel when they heard it , it doesn’t change the fact that it’s thier choice. he just knew beforehand who would. It doesn’t change anything at all really
because he knows beforehand mankind would fail , he determined that Christ would come and be sacrificed for thier sins from before the beginning .
this simply means god has foreknowledge. And his determinations come from it
“If so, is His omniscience not found in creating things as He has?”
not sure I’m understanding this .when you say “ creating things as he has “
what do you mean ?
every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.?
Romans 8 verse 7a, Galatians 5 verse 17, John 1 verse 5, John 14 verse 17 ~ The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. Darkness does not comprehend the Light. The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.
Nonsense. You had better NEVER claim to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.......You can't now with your recent rants.
“I think most of us can understand the bolded part about not obeying the gospel of Christ, but what's the big deal about those who don't know God? How come Paul lumped them in with those who reject the gospel? “
because if you reject the gospel you will never know God. The gospel reveals god to those who will listen so you can know him . “The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
Mark 1:1
If we reject the gospel we’re rejecting him and will never know him
Jesus' words in John 15 verse 19 and John 14 verse 17 ~ If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.
The calvies don't believe the true Gospel. The calvies don't know God. The calvies don't obey His Gospel.
To the calvies, God is just a sovereign Zeus that zaps people into heaven.
The Bible teaches us that God is loving, just, Righteous and GRACEFUL. And Is not willing that any should perish.
Super-determinist responses are becoming increasingly hostile shrill belligerent and unhinged that's for sure.
I have often wondered this, if one has never acted in faith of their own volition,
-thereby accepting the gift of salvation,
-which is God's condition,
how can they be born again?
I have brought this up before. You and I are safe in our salvation.
1. If belief and salvation is determined by God.....we are safe. We believe we have a PERSONAL faith, but in the end it was all determined by God. We are Safe either way.
2. If God DOES require personal faith and It is not all determined by God? The calvies are NOT safe.
I'm attempting to get at how God knows all things. For some, it's as simple as God is omniscient. And I'm okay with that. But within that, I believe we can understand more about God's omniscience. Perhaps an example is in order.
God made sheep in a particular fashion. They were created with 4 legs, a particular type of stomach, and a thick outer coat. Thus, because of the way God created sheep, He knows they will walk on 4 legs, eat grass, and provide substances for clothing.
If this is true of sheep, would this not also apply to all of creation?
I would have to go with #2
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
Romans 4:5
Faith (believing what God states is true and acting on it) is the condition that God has set since the start.
Agreement? I for one am seeking to seize onto doctrinal truth. Not agreeing with false doctrine to some degree that is somewhere in between the two.