Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

Paul did NOT address his letter to the world. He addressed it to God's saints! You FWers really struggle with personal pronouns. Sometime you change them to impersonal pronouns. At another time you'll change them to people to whom Paul did not address his letter. You're the one who needs to get a clue!

All that detail orientation.
And you still can not understand what it is that you can not get a grip on.

You are a persona wanting to convince others that you are real.

Keep straining out those gnats.
The camels find you amusing.

 

[posthuman]

record of confession for either Adam or Eve

1. Satan - no confession
2. Woman - "I was deceived and I sinned"
3. Adam - "for the sake of my wife, I sinned"

1. Satan - no sorrow
2. Eve - sorrow
3. Adam - sorrow

1. Satan - uncovered
2. Eve - given a covering made by the hand of God by the shedding of innocent blood
3. Adam - given a covering made by the hand of God by the shedding of innocent blood

1. Satan - cursed by God and promised to be destroyed
2. Eve - not cursed but given the promise of the Messiah
3. Adam - not cursed but given the promise of the Messiah

 

[Jordon]

@Rufus
Two people heading for same goal, it a good idea to pass.

What comes to pass with lord will pass and so what I was saying, who helps you to keep his will, is it down to yourself, how can you surrender something that belongs to him or,

surely God and his will is to hold his will in you

So it's like a great strength that can flood inside of you, as you don't surrender his will, but then that must because there's great strength in his will.

It's almost like his will grows in you but at the same he has you holding to his will with a plan for the future, as his will works in so many other ways to,

His will can disaplin you, and his will is the only thing has me understanding, I believe in fully having assurance m, and his will is all I know about him. As everything is in his will

 

[LifelongLearner]

For pity's sake man they DID make the "proper confession".

You have yet to put a dent in this proposition. Lots of incoherent raving though, evidently your go-to escape hatch when faced with insurmountable truth that you just don't like very much.

* Lots of incoherent raving though, evidently your go-to escape hatch when faced with insurmountable truth that you just don't like very much.*

Oh the irony! Doubt you'd know truth if it bit your posterior, i'd love to think you're a wannabe comedian but have my doubts.

 

[Magenta]

Paul did NOT address his letter to the world. He addressed it to God's saints! You FWers really struggle with personal pronouns. Sometime you change them to impersonal pronouns. At another time you'll change them to people to whom Paul did not address his letter. You're the one who needs to get a clue!

Rom 1:7a, 12-13
7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints...
12 that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith. 13 I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I planned many times to come to you (but have been prevented from doing so until now) in order that I might have a harvest among you, just as I have had among the other Gentiles.
NIV

If the entire world has biblical faith and Paul addressed the entire world as his "brothers", then, yes, the entire world is loved by God, and called to be saints , then I suppose you could say that the epistle was addressed to the world, as Paul clearly would have believed in universal salvation.

Paul's standard opening in his letters to the churches is "Grace and peace to you from God our Father
and the Lord Jesus Christ". He consistently uses this greeting, identifying himself as an apostle and
addressing the community of believers, followed by a blessing of grace and peace.

Here is the typical structure of Paul's letter openings:

Author Identification: Paul identifies himself as an apostle of Christ Jesus, by the will of God.
Addressee Identification: He addresses the church or the faithful in Christ Jesus.
Greeting: He then extends the blessing of "grace and peace to you".
Source of the Blessing: He clarifies that this blessing comes "from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ".

This consistent pattern, with variations for each specific letter, was a common form of salutation in the
early church and was a pattern that Paul regularly incorporated into his writings. For example, in his letter
to the church in Ephesus, he writes: "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To God's holy people
in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."

 

[posthuman]

They would never have got past the flaming sword anyway Rufus so they where banished from the garden not for favour but because the Garden was a place where they walked with God.

The garden of eden rufus was a garden to be kept which they could no longer keep

for the same reason they became unqualified to tend the garden we are unqualified to separate the wheat from the tares



Cain was a tiller of the ground

 

[Jordon]

in Genesis 3 we have the first two examples of coverings in all of scripture - - one by human hands, that is ineffective, and one by God's own hand, that is effective.

it's not insignificant

Zechariah 3:4​

Then He answered and spoke to those who stood before Him, saying, ​

"Take away the filthy garments from him." ​

And to him He said, ​

"See, I have removed your iniquity from you, and I will clothe you with rich robes."​

I understand I'm just getting to know your faith at the moment

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The lord made them a garment of skin before he banished them from the garden, now if you say they had made a proper confession and the garment of skin was a garment of righteousness, why then banish them from the garden. ?

Even with a flaming sword protecting the tree they could still dwell there in righteousness.

In Gen 3:20 when Adam changed the name of the woman to "Eve", this was indicative that Adam knew she believed the Gen 3:15 promise and that Adam believed the promise.

The promise of God in Gen 3:15 concerning the coming Messiah Who would crush the head of the one who deceived Eve was believed by both Adam and Eve.

Now skin was something used to cloth people in as well as being used to write something on,

Why did you think this material of skin was some magic cloth ?

If it was then why wasn't it called something else ?.

So do imagine a garment of skin is righteousness,

it could have been any type of skin, it could of been fibre cotton even leather.
Or did you think the act of clothing them was a loving act that proved God loved them, so he'd was also clothed them in righteousness.

God clothed them with the skin of the animal sacrificed for them. The sacrifice was the atonement for their sin ... the skin was a covering for their shame in sinning.

Prior to sinning ... And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed (Gen 2:25).

After they sinned ... And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself (Gen 3:10).

There was nothing lacking in God's offering ... God's offering covered both their sin and their shame. The sacrifice of the animal foreshadows the atonement ... without shedding of blood there is no remission (Heb 9:22) ... the garments of skin foreshadow the righteousness the believer is clothed in I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness (Is 61:10).

But wait he then still banished them from the garden. ?
A garden that they kept.

So let's say ok for your reasoning, some kind of righteousness was imputed to them, was it a thorn in there conscience ? Was it faith

there is only one kind of righteousness.

righteousness is not a "thorn in [the] conscience".

The conscience is what God gave mankind in order that mankind can know right from wrong. The conscience is what produces the feeling of guilt when we do something we know is wrong.

The problem with the conscience functioning outside of the influence of the Spirit is that we can easily rationalize ourselves into doing what is wrong. So natural man has no Holy Spirit within to oversee the conscience.

That does not mean natural man cannot or does not do anything right ... it just means that natural man is easily swayed to do something wrong without knowing he or she is doing something wrong until he or she feels the guilt of doing wrong.

Where they back to normal, innocent and no longer ashamed ?

They were never back to the state they were in before they sinned.
.

 

[Jordon]

for the same reason they became unqualified to tend the garden we are unqualified to separate the wheat from the tares

one thing we can talk about that, but no we can't separate it.

But the flaming sword im wondering now what would have happend if he hadn't of put that sword there and he left Adam and eve there clothed in righteousness,

Any ideas ?

Well I know they would of lived forever but in what condition ?

Would that have been in a condition of protective righteousness, like a hedge of protection, or would it have been with an imputed righteousness

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So Paul was on his way to do unthinkable things

Until the lord blinded him for a few days,

Was this act by the lord against Paul's will ?

When the Lord first spoke to Paul, there was a light that shined around him ... Paul asked Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? (Acts 9:6). so it does not appear to be against Paul's will.

Have you considered that the blindness could have been done as a sign to Paul?

Paul was learned in the Scriptures. He was a pharisee who sat at the feet of Gamaliel. Paul would have known about the prophetic writings concerning Messiah healing the blind.

Perhaps the Lord blinded Paul and then sent Ananias to heal his blindness as a sign that Paul had been called by the Messiah Whose church he had been persecuting.
.

 

[cv5]

1. Satan - no confession
2. Woman - "I was deceived and I sinned"
3. Adam - "for the sake of my wife, I sinned"

1. Satan - no sorrow
2. Eve - sorrow
3. Adam - sorrow

1. Satan - uncovered
2. Eve - given a covering made by the hand of God by the shedding of innocent blood
3. Adam - given a covering made by the hand of God by the shedding of innocent blood

1. Satan - cursed by God and promised to be destroyed
2. Eve - not cursed but given the promise of the Messiah
3. Adam - not cursed but given the promise of the Messiah

Are you paying attention @Rufus buddy?

 

[Jordon]

When the Lord first spoke to Paul, there was a light that shined around him ... Paul asked Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? (Acts 9:6). so it does not appear to be against Paul's will.

Have you considered that the blindness could have been done as a sign to Paul?

Paul was learned in the Scriptures. He was a pharisee who sat at the feet of Gamaliel. Paul would have known about the prophetic writings concerning Messiah healing the blind.

Perhaps the Lord blinded Paul and then sent Ananias to heal his blindness as a sign that Paul had been called by the Messiah Whose church he had been persecuting.
.

ok so when you say it does not appear to your unsure at this point ok

 

[Magenta]

what would have happend if he hadn't of put that sword there and he left Adam and eve there clothed in righteousness,

Why do you call them clothed in righteousness? The blood of animals did not impute righteousness.
The Old Testament sacrificial system was temporary, providing only a covering for sins and a symbolic
reminder of the need for a perfect, once-for-all sacrifice... it is only the blood of Jesus Christ that can
provide true forgiveness, a cleansed conscience, and the imputation of God's righteousness to believers.

 

[Jordon]

Ok @cv5 so may I have an answer was it a hedge of protective righteousness God clothed Adam and eve in or was it imputed.

So either way if you can't answer completely who's will are they living by this point, theres or his will ?

 

[Jordon]

Why do you call them clothed in righteousness? The blood of animals did not impute righteousness.
The Old Testament sacrificial system was temporary, providing only a covering for sins and a symbolic
reminder of the need for a perfect, once-for-all sacrifice... it is only the blood of Jesus Christ that can
provide true forgiveness, a cleansed conscience, and the imputation of God's righteousness to believers.

I'm not saying anything I'm asking

 

[Magenta]

I'm not saying anything I'm asking

1 Corinthians 2 v 9 ~ No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.

 

[Jordon]

1 Corinthians 2 v 9 ~ No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.

It's not up to us at harvest when where caught up in the clouds God will send his angels to separate the wheat and the tares xx

 

[Rufus]

Genesis 3:12​

"I ate."​

Ahh...what a pious, God-fearing, penitential confession -- NOT! A "confession" with an excuse. The [defective] woman YOU gave me [I didn't ask for her, btw) gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate." So, Adam implicitly blamed God first for giving him defective merchandise, then he blamed the woman. The woman made me do it...AND she would not have been able to do that, God, if you knew what you were doing in the first place!

Such a contrite, humble and sincere confession...

 

[reneweddaybyday]

ok so when you say it does not appear to your unsure at this point ok

When I said "it does not appear to be against Paul's will" ... I said that for your sake ... I was pointing out that it was not against Paul's will.

Read the record in Acts 9 ... think about and consider what occurred.

As in every instance where anyone comes to faith, God reaches out first ... the person either believes or suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.

Paul's call was unique in that the Lord Jesus Christ reached out to Paul directly from heaven. That does not happen in every case. For the most part, faithful believers speak the truth of God's Word to unbelievers. However, in Paul's case, because he was a persecutor of the church, I wonder if any believer would have approached him to preach to him. Although we do have the record of faithful Ananias who was told to go heal Paul ... not without hesitation ... but he did go. I love Ananias.
.

 

[cv5]

one thing we can talk about that, but no we can't separate it.

But the flaming sword im wondering now what would have happend if he hadn't of put that sword there and he left Adam and eve there clothed in righteousness,

Any ideas ?

Well I know they would of lived forever but in what condition ?

Would that have been in a condition of protective righteousness, like a hedge of protection, or would it have been with an imputed righteousness

But the flaming sword im wondering now what would have happend if he hadn't of put that sword there and he left Adam and eve there clothed in righteousness,
Well I know they would of lived forever but in what condition ?

A condition of "eternal dying". The most horrible fate imaginable, one that God mercifully prevented.
And FYI, Adam (through sheer force of will resisting immense temptation), refused to eat of the tree of life and PREVENTED the Woman from doing so as well. Rather, he trusted in his God to resolve that matter. And He did....

Oh and BTW, during the "end times", the anti-christ DOES offer fallen mankind the fruit of his evil version of the tree of life......"eternal life by another way".

Those who do NOT resist the temptation (and take the mark of the beast and worship him) are doomed to eternity in the lake of fire.
Do you see the counterfeit pattern?

Preemptively, God in his mercy WARNS the world of the horrors of taking the mark and "receiving Satan's life" by a very interesting method:

[Rev 9:5 KJV]
And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

[Rev 9:6 KJV]
And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Question: where does the "five months" derive from? Do you know? Its a biblical pattern.......