Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

That's so gay. LOL

Just kidding! I affirm the rainbow as a symbol of God keeping His promises to us... which is why I also contest those who try to shame people who affirm that God keeps His promises.

And good morning Jordon

 

[Jordon]

That's so gay. LOL

Just kidding! I affirm the rainbow as a symbol of God keeping His promises to us... which is why I also contest those who try to shame people who affirm that God keeps His promises.

And good morning Jordon

Lol it's ok glad you notice it was a promise tho,

I was wondering about you earlier in the other thread I just thought I can't be bothered to reply to much at the moment as it won't make a difference

I should say sorry to @Rufus to really I was just so wound up about by certain members here yesterday. I'll speak to you soon

 

[Rufus]

Right so if seems your saying God forgave eve before Adam.

And your nit sure when eve was healed of her fallen condition.

And your not sure what a fallen condition is.

Is that correct ?

Unlike Eve, there is no biblical evidence that God forgave Adam.

And no, I'm not sure what you mean by "healed" or Eve's "fallen condition". If you mean by "healed" that Eve was made 100% functionally free from the presence of sin within her and from without her, I would have to say no that she wasn't. That kind of freedom won't happen until the Resurrection at the Second Coming. But Eve was certainly forgiven and reconciled to God in Gen 3:15.

 

[Rufus]

so a fallen condition means you are dead in your sins.

It means you need to be made alive.

Ok so for me they where not forgiven at first because they where both banished from the garden.

Why would you think clothing them was forgiving them, and why would you think putting enmity between eves of spring and the serpents offspring was an act of forgiving Adam and eve.

Why would God need to forgive somebody in a fallen Condition,

As they've already suffered there fait, so it was only the case God needed to heal them.

The banishment of A&E from the Garden was actually a gracious act of God, otherwise they would have eaten of the Tree of Life and lived forever with their sin nature.

When God provided skin coverings for them this implied that he sacrificed the lives of innocent animals as an atonement for sin. But again...this is only half the story since in Adam's case (unlike Eve's) there is no record anywhere in scripture that he ever acknowledged God, trusted Him or repented of his sins.

And AGAIN...I do not believe Adam was forgiven in Gen 3:15! Where is he mentioned in the text!? Only Eve is mentioned. Reconciliation is logically implied in the passage since all God's image-bearers are moral beings. As moral beings, we will either be inclined toward all that is Good (of God) or all that is Evil (of the Devil). So...since God decreed enmity between EVE ONLY and the serpent (the devil), it's not possible that the enmity toward God that Eve created when she sinned remained any longer; for how could Eve both hate (be at enmity with) Good and Evil simultaneously? As moral image bearers of God, all human beings will be inclined to either love what is Good or what is Evil, but we cannot love both. God simply didn't wire us that way. He did not create us to substantially and essentially serve two masters, to love both masters or to hate both masters. It has always been one or the other.

 

[cv5]

Unlike Eve, there is no biblical evidence that God forgave Adam.

And no, I'm not sure what you mean by "healed" or Eve's "fallen condition". If you mean by "healed" that Eve was made 100% functionally free from the presence of sin within her and from without her, I would have to say no that she wasn't. That kind of freedom won't happen until the Resurrection at the Second Coming. But Eve was certainly forgiven and reconciled to God in Gen 3:15.

Adam confessed (just the same as the Woman) and was GIFTED/PROVIDED with "robes of righteousness" (that Adam likely anticipated and duly RECEIVED) just the same as the Woman.

Both are without doubt (100% probability) SAVED!
In fact this is the intended purpose of the "codified signals" aka Bible passages to begin with.

BTW, King Saul was also without doubt (100% probability) SAVED as well.

Surely you cannot fathom what I proclaim. But in your predicament, this is to be expected.
But.... @posthuman does! Good for him. Good for me. Sad for you buddy.

 

[Jordon]

The banishment of A&E from the Garden was actually a gracious act of God, otherwise they would have eaten of the Tree of Life and lived forever with their sin nature.

When God provided skin coverings for them this implied that he sacrificed the lives of innocent animals as an atonement for sin. But again...this is only half the story since in Adam's case (unlike Eve's) there is no record anywhere in scripture that he ever acknowledged God, trusted Him or repented of his sins.

And AGAIN...I do not believe Adam was forgiven in Gen 3:15! Where is he mentioned in the text!? Only Eve is mentioned. Reconciliation is logically implied in the passage since all God's image-bearers are moral beings. As moral beings, we will either be inclined toward all that is Good (of God) or all that is Evil (of the Devil). So...since God decreed enmity between EVE ONLY and the serpent (the devil), it's not possible that the enmity toward God that Eve created when she sinned remained any longer; for how could Eve both hate (be at enmity with) Good and Evil simultaneously? As moral image bearers of God, all human beings will be inclined to either love what is Good or what is Evil, but we cannot love both. God simply didn't wire us that way. He did not create us to substantially and essentially serve two masters, to love both masters or to hate both masters. It has always been one or the other.

I don't know Rufus
It's a big part of my faith that Gods sovereign will, only be him known in him as to is going to be saved, and to he knows are saved, before the foundations of the world, and the one he knows who are saved before the foundations of the world they may still walking in a tribulation of some sort right now , they could even be in the a place of darkness right now or even in stage of being healed from a fallen nature,

So it's difficult for me I can't go against my faith. Because I see Godss sovereign will as being known only in him, which means I have to respect his sovereign will.

And not declare someone unsaved before there life is over

 

[Cessory]

In keeping ones soul life safe and secure contrary to Jesus command, then free will away, but if one has been instructed by example after example of servants obeying in scripture. God only knows one will an choice His, debate Him. When they make all these references about free will an free choice as defenders an prosecutors of any that will oppose them. Without choice or faith you can't please God, they magnify choice showing their power of decision. I just simply ask for 2 or 3 scriptures supporting their claims

 

[Rufus]

Adam confessed (just the same as the Woman) and was GIFTED/PROVIDED with "robes of righteousness" (that Adam likely anticipated and duly RECEIVED) just the same as the Woman.

Both are without doubt (100% probability) SAVED!
In fact this is the intended purpose of the "codified signals" aka Bible passages to begin with.

BTW, King Saul was also without doubt (100% probability) SAVED as well.

Surely you cannot fathom what I proclaim. But in your predicament, this is to be expected.
But.... @posthuman does! Good for him. Good for me. Sad for you buddy.

Only in your wild, unbridled, unrestrained, carnal imagination! In fact, there is no record of confession for either Adam or Eve, although Eve most certainly acknowledged the Lord twice subsequent to God's decree in Gen 3:15. If there was you would have posted the biblical record for all to see. You clearly are adding to God's Word which comes with severe biblical warnings for your info.

Thanks be to Almighty God that by His precious grace I do not and will not fathom your lies!

 

[Rufus]

I don't know Rufus
It's a big part of my faith that Gods sovereign will, only be him known in him as to is going to be saved, and to he knows are saved, before the foundations of the world, and the one he knows who are saved before the foundations of the world they may still walking in a tribulation of some sort right now , they could even be in the a place of darkness right now or even in stage of being healed from a fallen nature,

So it's difficult for me I can't go against my faith. Because I see Godss sovereign will as being known only in him, which means I have to respect his sovereign will.

And not declare someone unsaved before there life is over

God's SECRET/sovereign decretive will is known only to Him (Deut 29:29), as you rightly say; but what about his revealed will? What in the world do you think the purpose behind sacred scripture is, if not to reveal to his people his revealed, preceptive and dispositional wills?

 

[cv5]

Only in your wild, unbridled, unrestrained, carnal imagination! In fact, there is no record of confession for either Adam or Eve, although Eve most certainly acknowledged the Lord twice subsequent to God's decree in Gen 3:15. If there was you would have posted the biblical record for all to see. You clearly are adding to God's Word which comes with severe biblical warnings for your info.

Thanks be to Almighty God that by His precious grace I do not and will not fathom your lies!

Your hormonal raving neither impresses me nor convinces me.

 

[Kroogz]

Adam confessed (just the same as the Woman) and was GIFTED/PROVIDED with "robes of righteousness" (that Adam likely anticipated and duly RECEIVED) just the same as the Woman.

Both Adam and Eve gave a straight up, detailed confession to God. They withheld nothing....very humbling.

What we have today are a bunch of self righteous prigs that project their own personal motives on Adam and Eve's motives or mind set.

 

[Jordon]

Both Adam and Eve gave a straight up, detailed confession to God. They withheld nothing....very humbling.

What we have today are a bunch of self righteous prigs that project their own personal motives on Adam and Eve's motives or mind set.

Yep well I can see how you feel it was a confession when eve told God the serpent said I would surely live, but the fact is both Adam and eve knew not to Disobey God,

But they never needed to confess to God, as God knew what they had done anyway he wanted to hear there confession, now if they had both given a genuine confession it's possible the punishment they received may not have been severe.

But he punished eve with labour pains and Adam with hard work for the rest of life
So there confession wasn't genuine.

And not only that there nature was still fallen.

But to Adam God only mentions his body returning to ground theres no mention of what would happen to his breath of life.

And it was Adam who named his wife it wasn't God. It's been that way forever that people call there children named with meaning.

Since eve was the first mother of the living Adam called her eve with meaning

But even tho she's fallen she's still living but her fallen nature still needs healing. As she's just suffered what's God said she would and Adam.

So he clothed them to before the punishment was served, but to say he clothed them in righteousness, really if he did why did they make a bad confession ?

 

[cv5]

Yep well I can see how you feel it was a confession when eve told God the serpent said I would surely live, but the fact is both Adam and eve knew not to Disobey God,

But they never needed to confess to God, as God knew what they had done anyway he wanted to hear there confession, now if they had both given a genuine confession it's possible the punishment they received may not have been severe.

But he punished eve with labour pains and Adam with hard work for the rest of life
So there confession wasn't genuine.

And not only that there nature was still fallen.

But to Adam God only mentions his body returning to ground theres no mention of what would happen to his breath of life.

And it was Adam who named his wife it wasn't God. It's been that way forever that people call there children named with meaning.

Since eve was the first mother of the living Adam called her eve with meaning

But even tho she's fallen she's still living but her fallen nature still needs healing. As she's just suffered what's God said she would and Adam.

So he clothed them to before the punishment was served, but to say he clothed them in righteousness, really if he did why did they make a bad confession ?

Clearly, you are utterly ignorant of the facts pertaining to the Genesis 3 trial on record.

The superb ( and profound) exigetically thorough lectures have already been provided here on this very thread multiple times. You are admitting to have failed to expend the necessary 30-40 hours required to review and understand them?

Pity that.

 

[Jordon]

Clearly, you are utterly ignorant of the facts pertaining to the Genesis 3 trial on record.

The superb ( and profound) exigetically thorough lectures have already been provided here on this very thread multiple times. You are admitting to have failed to expend the necessary 30-40 hours required to review and understand them?

Pity that.

well if you think they where clothed in righteousness why didn't they make the proper confession,

You know like sorry we Disobeyed.you all they did was blame someone else is that righteous to you ?

The whole garden knew the command including the serpent.

As they where all punished.

 

[cv5]

Adam confessed (just the same as the Woman) and was GIFTED/PROVIDED with "robes of righteousness" (that Adam likely anticipated and duly RECEIVED) just the same as the Woman.

Both are without doubt (100% probability) SAVED!
In fact this is the intended purpose of the "codified signals" aka Bible passages to begin with.

BTW, King Saul was also without doubt (100% probability) SAVED as well.

Surely you cannot fathom what I proclaim. But in your predicament, this is to be expected.
But.... @posthuman does! Good for him. Good for me. Sad for you buddy.

Both are without doubt (100% probability) SAVED!
This trial/confession/positive reaction/forgiveness /salvation sequence entry into the record being intentional and for our edification and learning and encouragement. All this composing the seed plot that carries forward throughout the entire biblical record, all of which can be traced back to it one way or another.

Oh and another thing @Rufus buddy: all of this utterly ruins every determinist pretention that there ever was.

 

[Jordon]

God's SECRET/sovereign decretive will is known only to Him (Deut 29:29), as you rightly say; but what about his revealed will? What in the world do you think the purpose behind sacred scripture is, if not to reveal to his people his revealed, preceptive and dispositional wills?

That's one passage there many things that are to use in his will and be made known , and I feel strongly there is something very important in his will that only he knows who will be saved.

So I feel this will all the time it stops me in my tracks even when I've got somebody telling me I'm going to hell.

It kicks in more then, even when someone is demonising me Rufus, it doesn't stop me from believing and surrendering his will, to the point where you take the action there taking and surrender his will, where by you tell them the same.

It gets more of will the more you do it

 

[Jordon]

@Rufus just remember he is our father my father is your father and the will I speak is yours to in fact its all his children, just don't let them steal that will from you.

Hold onto this will I speak of, the one only known in him honestly our father will love you for it

 

[Jordon]

They would never have got past the flaming sword anyway Rufus so they where banished from the garden not for favour but because the Garden was a place where they walked with God.

The garden of eden rufus was a garden to be kept which they could no longer keep

 

[cv5]

well if you think they where clothed in righteousness why didn't they make the proper confession,

For pity's man they DID make the "proper confession".
The CONSEQUENCE of this free will confession being that God was satisfied. THEN they were OFFERED (and received in good faith) the "robes of righteousness".

BTW, you are fully responsible (and fully accountable) to discriminate between the con-men, hacks and frauds around here and the legit Bible scholars, scribes and wise men. Good luck to you.

 

[Kroogz]

For pity's man they DID make the "proper confession".
The CONSEQUENCE of this free will confession being that God was satisfied. THEN they were OFFERED (and received in good faith) the "robes of righteousness".

BTW, you are fully responsible (and fully accountable) to discriminate between the con-men, hacks and frauds around here and the legit Bible scholars, scribes and wise men. Good luck to you.

Same as the church age confession. 1 John 1:9.

Name it and cite it to God. No guilt. No feeling sorry. Name it and cite it and move forward.

Adam and Eve told the Gods honest truth, just the way it all went down....as we all should.