Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Oh, I know exactly why this is a common representation of Reformed thought. And I am not deflecting. I stated a fact. Look, I understand the hostility. I understand the concern. Truly. I felt the same way for a long time. But until you make a concerted effort to understand what is actually being said and taught, you'll continue to misrepresent them. I have made a clear point to highlight assumptions both sides make about each other, and I stand by that. Assumptions are gnarly, vicious, and divisive. We MUST constantly check ourselves and our arguments for them.

However, I don't know you, and I don't believe in hiding behind a screen to attack others. I'm just here to converse, encourage, provide my own convictions on these topics, and sharpen and be sharpened. I'm not here to argue or put down others. Unless it's heresy. But even then, I won't attack the person; I will only attack the ideology.

Mr. Reformed Theology himself states Reformed theology is defined by "regeneration precedes faith."

Of course he forgets to mention that this is nowhere explicitly taught in scripture, it is a doctrine built solely by implication while suppressing the teachings throughout scripture which clearly state that faith (man's response) is first and then regeneration.

 
Love conquers all tho m

Mr. Reformed Theology himself states Reformed theology is defined by "regeneration precedes faith."

Of course he forgets to mention that this is nowhere explicitly taught in scripture, it is a doctrine built solely by implication while suppressing the teachings throughout scripture which clearly state that faith (man's response) is first and then regeneration.


The order of salvation is something we can healthily disagree on. There are all kinds of views all throughout church history held by people who all clearly and thoroughly loved the Lord.
 
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Apologies if I missed something. There's a lot to keep up with on this thread. HAHA

I would just start with the basics. You know the whole go to the horse's mouth saying. Read people old and new, like John Calvin (who, I would argue, didn't teach everything Calvinists are now accused of teaching), all the way up to John MacArthur. It's good to know that "Calvinism" isn't a standalone teaching. John Calvin was in a long line of historical thought. But aside from John Calvin and Calvinism, Charles Spurgeon was the Billy Graham of his day, so he would be good to read. Look for John Owen, John Bunyan, J.I. Packer, Paul Washer, R.C. Sproul, Dane Ortlund, D.A. Carson, John Frame. That's just to name a few. And if any of those names give any of you the idea that you know exactly what kind of person I am, chill out. I was asked for names that would help in a particular study.


Lol have read a majority of them already, except for Dane Ortlund, D.A. Carson, John Frame.

I have even read Marin Lloyd Jones, and many others, guess what I donated all those books to the trash when I realized they were wrong.

Sad you have been taken in. :(

I think those of us who left this faulty "system" like @Kroogz and @cv5 and myself know exactly what is teaches.
 
ok well it's look like you've made your choice then m but i ant giving you invitation to see which is clearly true of God as an ideology I have.

Gods permissive will of what he allows in a persons heart can be seen in nearly every verse in the bible as can the man's freedom of thought.

And you want to tell me it's no where to be seen.

Ok m you don't have my permission to attack me. Because it's not an ideology

You didn't read everything I said. But I guess that's your choice. ;)
 
The order of salvation is something we can healthily disagree on. There are all kinds of views all throughout church history held by people who all clearly and thoroughly loved the Lord.

Wrong we cannot just disagree, one is truth and one is a lie, simple as that.

It is a foundational first principle of the Bible.
 
Lol have read a majority of them already, except for Dane Ortlund, D.A. Carson, John Frame.

I have even read Marin Lloyd Jones, and many others, guess what I donated all those books to the trash when I realized they were wrong.

Sad you have been taken in. :(

I think those of us who left this faulty "system" like @Kroogz and @cv5 and myself know exactly what is teaches.

Again, you didn't even read my full response or else you wouldn't have even said that.
 
Wrong we cannot just disagree, one is truth and one is a lie, simple as that.

It is a foundational first principle of the Bible.

Okay. I'll humor you. Show me the explicit order of salvation as described in Scripture. And be as thorough as you possibly can. No games. Lay it all out.
 
Apologies if I missed something. There's a lot to keep up with on this thread. HAHA

I would just start with the basics. You know the whole go to the horse's mouth saying. Read people old and new, like John Calvin (who, I would argue, didn't teach everything Calvinists are now accused of teaching), all the way up to John MacArthur. It's good to know that "Calvinism" isn't a standalone teaching. John Calvin was in a long line of historical thought. But aside from John Calvin and Calvinism, Charles Spurgeon was the Billy Graham of his day, so he would be good to read. Look for John Owen, John Bunyan, J.I. Packer, Paul Washer, R.C. Sproul, Dane Ortlund, D.A. Carson, John Frame. That's just to name a few. And if any of those names give any of you the idea that you know exactly what kind of person I am, chill out. I was asked for names that would help in a particular study.

Paul Washer ugh
 
You do realize I normally have you on ignore?

I showed you Scripture and you want to argue with me about it. Not interested..

You're sold down the river.
Brainwashed and closed-minded.

You are RELIGION.
Not a living faith.

You can not discuss about what will trap you in your accepted lie.

A false sense of security is all you have.

And, some others here are surely going to give me a thumbs down?
Will they do so after I mention them?
They are the support group.
Every religion has them....
Men backing it. Not God.

God backs those who stay with His Word, being taught with accuracy and truth.

Wishing you all a prosperous and nice Day.

......
 
Okay. I'll humor you. Show me the explicit order of salvation as described in Scripture. And be as thorough as you possibly can. No games. Lay it all out.

"Humour me" you are the one that stated I do not understand Reformed theology or something to that effect.

Please, by all means tell us the explicit clear teaching by Paul or Christ Jesus where regeneration precedes faith, not implied,

surely this soteriology would gave been clearly stated by Paul not once but several times.
 
You are RELIGION.
Not a living faith.

You have captured it right here.

Sadly, even if you have a true conversion experience if you immerse yourself in false teachers like Sproul, Washer (ugh) et. al you will soon be in living in religion.
 
Do you really think they care about truth? they should be sorry, they should be begging forgiveness for promoting a false soteriology but they are not, they double down.
They have not a clue how to read scripture at all, they have been instructed in this doctrine by some pastor or high profile Reformed writer.

It is obvious the game is to suppress the truth.

They are very good at making themselves look big and intimidating, you know like puffer fish.
My mom often stated you cannot reason with a one year old, they do not have that ability, that is somewhat what this thread is like.

But we know that Reformed doctrine ....
closes the door of salvation to most people
takes away our responsibility to believe >>> to believe on Christ Jesus and His work on our behalf!!

The Bible, God's word for all, opens the door of salvation up to all people and tells us to choose whom we will serve.

We must pray diligently this doctrine looses it foothold in the churches or we will head into another dark age.

For those who have caught on by grace? And continue to mature more and more in the filling of the Spirit?
Those who refused to keep growing? Are for our testing and motivating us to understand even better what we have learned before.

So it is...

Grace and peace!
 
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The order of salvation is something we can healthily disagree on. There are all kinds of views all throughout church history held by people who all clearly and thoroughly loved the Lord.

Thoroughly love the Lord?

Funny, we have been told over and over the natural man is at enmity with God, so if there is only one gate and one way to enter, then it cannot be all those views are correct.
 
you so silly!

I'll work on first point ... "how can a person still sin once saved" ...

.
Well the obvious answer is they have less of a chance 🤩

To the next point, in the garden of eden, did God prevent them from eating from the tree of life because instead of the Commandment to obey him, entering their seed, disobedience to God entered there seed.

Was there seed in the process of being pollinated in the garden, like how the bees pollinate the flowers, with there sting m, remember him, haha, did you know he sang a song called the Lazarus heart, I believe that was a Catholic thing at the time to. But you cant blame him seeing as half of England schools are devided into protestant and catholic. Something seriously wrong there m. It's what you call promoting religious nut cases m.

What do you think could have happened to there seed if the commandment to obey him entered there seed ,🤩 could it have been pollinated and then they could have even ate of the tree of life.

Because God only prevented them eating from the tree of life after the disobedience entered there seed.

If we look how bees pollinate by his design would you say that's God's will for you m.

Does the flower open it's buds to pollination
 
You have captured it right here.

Sadly, even if you have a true conversion experience if you immerse yourself in false teachers like Sproul, Washer (ugh) et. al you will soon be in living in religion.

There is a way to escape for every believer who refuses to face the fear and trembling that comes to those who God wants to manifest as His representative in the Devil's world. Religion offers them solace to say they are for God, while posing no threat to the Devil's controlling the minds of men.

Religion is Satan's invention. He will take the Bible and create different religions with it to appeal to what is preferred by different kinds of people.


For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
2 Timothy 4:3

We need to be careful, too.
For Satan wishes to form a religion for our mindset too.
To pull those away from the strait and narrow into a more broad-minded approach to better appeal to those
who prefer to compromise, to better make friends. But, that only lands one in a superficial place without God,
but done in the name of love as its banner.

That is why Jesus told us...
"Only a few find it.

Note carefully what He said!

"Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

He did not say...

Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to salvation, and there are few who find it."

He spoke of finding LIFE!

The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy.
I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more
abundantly." John 10:10​
He wants our Cup to be overflowing with the capacity for life.

The way to finding life more abundantly is what He desires for all believers to have.
But, He said that only a few out of the many will be willing to endure what is needed to find it.

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only,
but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

Philippians 2:12


Instead? They will choose from the "broad and wide way" to happiness.
Some even end up mentally ill.
Many, simply rigid in their thinking, which they assume for strength.

God will provide for all our needs, and He has done so.
 
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How do you exercise something without first having it?


Many times God will place you into situations to make you realize that you have it, and finding yourself to need using it.
Or.. make you painfully aware that you need to gain what is needed, as He will bring it your way.