Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

The free will camp assumes, with no supporting text and contrary to many verses that evidence the opposite, that the man of flesh is free to choose, and will believe, that which he can neither receive nor comprehend, and to which he is inherently opposed with his uncircumcised heart of stone. There is simply no getting around the fact that this is the core of their belief, and it flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches about the natural man who is a slave to sin and lover of darkness refusing to come into the light, blinded to truth and under the power and influence of Satan: he serves the law of sin which brings forth fruit unto death, not life. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, his incurably wicked heart cannot be changed. He hates God, rejects the light, and hears the gospel message as foolishness. Praise the Lord if He has set you free!

 

[Rufus]

I agreed with this Scripture that you seemed to have turned a blind eye to.

I will show you again.

Please address the Scripture this time.

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live ​

when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, ​

the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.​

​

​

Ephesians 2:1-2​

Here is more context. Verses 1-7.

It should become obvious to anyone who studies the Bible.

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live ​

when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, ​

the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among ​

them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and ​

thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. ​

​

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ ​

even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. ​

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms ​

in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable ​

riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.​

When you were deserving of wrath?
You had to still be definitely of this world.

If you want to argue this, and say it is not so?

Then it is you who have a serious problem with Scripture.


......

But God determined in eternity to effectually call Abraham's descendants OUT of the world. So, what is your point?

 

[cv5]

So...you believe God sent the army of Israel to Jericho to bring revival? Surely there would be some mention of God's intention in the scripture. Can you please point it out to me?

"Some mention" huh?
Absolute undeniable proof of you staggeringly abysmal Biblical illiteracy.
Truly, your ignorance is epic.

 

[Rufus]

Yep, we certainly have choice but free will involves unilateral capability to execute our choices. Which we don't have, we often have to cede to the wants and needs of others.

However, as i've said before i'm certain Adam and Eve had free will in their perfect state, to make the choices they did. However, being fallen means we don't have free will because we can't make pure, uncontaminated choices and are often forced to cede to the wishes of others. I also think Adam and Eve are probably saved despite what they did, think they were genuinely repentant later on. Certain we will have free will again when we're restored too.

While created "very good", A&E weren't perfect. Perfection would have resulted from passing God's test in the Garden, since that test was a test of A&E's faith, which if they had exercised would have made them perfectly righteous.

 

[HeIsHere]

And you do not understand how to admit error.

Sure you use different words offer no reason/analysis/exegete of the passage and I need to admit error.
LOL!!!

 

[cv5]

They did save rahab and they didnt kill everyone single person in all the land. Cities had ot bad. Usually extermination.
Im sure some country folk got evangelized.

Correct. Entire cities and regions. Undoubtedly THOUSANDS.

And of all peoples noted in the OT, it was the GIBEONITES that were the most faithful all throughout the Biblical record.
Not only that, they were the most spiritually INSIGHTFUL, which of course REINFORCED their faith. They were FULLY CONVINCED of God's nature of goodness and righteousness, and of the validity of the promise of His certain salvation.

The Israelites blew it, the Gibeonites never did. They "held on", much like Jacob.

 

[Cameron143]

"Some mention" huh?
Absolute undeniable proof of you staggeringly abysmal Biblical illiteracy.
Truly, your ignorance is epic.

Awesome. So where is the text that states God sent the armies of Israel to evangelize Jericho?

 

[Magenta]

Til you can make a good case connecting this supposed "total inability" to soteriology, the doctrine has no legs, it it still running on very light implication or eisegesis.

That case is made repeatedly, but you turn a blind eye to the truth and continually deny what the Bible says.

Because to you, man's heart is not incurably wicked, he can grow something good from it even though Jesus said he could not. He does not hate the light as Scripture says, he will choose to come into the light as a slave to sin and lover of darkness even though Scripture says he will not, he chooses to believe what he cannot even receive or comprehend, that which he is inherently opposed to, which he hears as foolishness. His flesh will make that decision which will please God even though it is explicitly articulated that the flesh cannot please God, cannot submit to God, is incapable of obeying God; even so, you repeatedly tell us that man is not born incapable, you tell us Scripture says no such thing regardless of the fact that it is plainly written, salvation is not by the will of the flesh, for flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death. We are also plainly told that the world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, that God can only be known by revelation, but you deny this, and repeatedly tell us man has everything he needs to come to belief and that divine intervention is not necessary, even though left to his own devices, man would not even seek for God. The Bible makes plain that revelation of God is personal, which you denigrate, and knowing God is directly tied to attaining to life ever after, which is itself salvation, so how can it not be necessary in your view?

John 17 verses 2-3 ~ You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent.

 

[Rufus]

Can you tell me the person I must read to actually understand Reformed theology?

Please feel to set the record straight, I see you missed that?

Read the Book authored by the Living Word someday. Read, study, ponder, meditate on the Wisdom, Understanding and Insights that are in HIS Book!

 

[cv5]

So...you believe God sent the army of Israel to Jericho to bring revival? Surely there would be some mention of God's intention in the scripture. Can you please point it out to me?

As you have admitted (many many times), you have zero comprehension of the existence of these passages, what is the intended message is, what is actually happening here and why.

Doubtless the viewing audience will pick up the significance, whereas you and your crew will deny and revile.

[Jos 10:1 KJV]
Now it came to pass, when Adonizedek king of Jerusalem had heard how Joshua had taken Ai, and had utterly destroyed it; as he had done to Jericho and her king, so he had done to Ai and her king; and how the inhabitants of Gibeon had made peace with Israel, and were among them;

[Jos 10:2 KJV]
That they feared greatly, because Gibeon [was] a great city, as one of the royal cities, and because it [was] greater than Ai, and all the men thereof [were] mighty.

[Jos 10:4 KJV]
Come up unto me, and help me, that we may smite Gibeon: for it hath made peace with Joshua and with the children of Israel.

[Jos 10:5 KJV]
Therefore the five kings of the Amorites, the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, the king of Eglon, gathered themselves together, and went up, they and all their hosts, and encamped before Gibeon, and made war against it.

[Jos 10:6 KJV]
And the men of Gibeon sent unto Joshua to the camp to Gilgal, saying, Slack not thy hand from thy servants; come up to us quickly, and save us, and help us: for all the kings of the Amorites that dwell in the mountains are gathered together against us.

[Jos 10:10 KJV]
And the LORD discomfited them before Israel, and slew them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, and chased them along the way that goeth up to Bethhoron, and smote them to Azekah, and unto Makkedah.

[Jos 10:12 KJV]
Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

 

[Magenta]

Read the Book authored by the Living Word someday. Read, study, ponder,
meditate on the Wisdom, Understanding and Insights that are in HIS Book!

Yes, I was going to say, the Bible is the only book needed... of course we have no real evidence
that heishere has even read the Bible, though she claims to have read many other books and
sources, but that does not men she really has, either, since she misrepresents herself.

 

[Rufus]

Thoroughly love the Lord?

Funny, we have been told over and over the natural man is at enmity with God, so if there is only one gate and one way to enter, then it cannot be all those views are correct.

What about the supernatural man of God's New Creation? God's new creation doesn't love the Lord? Do you love the Lord?

 

[cv5]

Awesome. So where is the text that states God sent the armies of Israel to evangelize Jericho?

You get.....nothing. From me. Its over.

Mat 13:1
The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.

 

[Magenta]

Thoroughly love the Lord?

Funny, we have been told over and over the natural man is at enmity with God,

That is what the Bible says, yes. Ah, you disagree again with what the Bible says. No surprises there.

Biblical truth concerning the natural man: The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Flesh serves the law of sin. Good itself does not dwell in me.

 

[Genez]

Read the Book authored by the Living Word someday. Read, study, ponder, meditate on the Wisdom, Understanding and Insights that are in HIS Book!

Are you saying that to mean, the Bible?
You are living proof that it does not work that way.

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, ​

and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ​

ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ." Ephesians 4:11-12​

It does not say....

And He Himself gave us the Bible (which is a translation with some misleading ​

readings and mistakes) to be read, and subjectively abused by unstable religious people.​

......

 

[cv5]

Are you saying that to mean, the Bible?
You are living proof that it does not work that way.

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, ​

and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ​

ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ." Ephesians 4:11-12​

It does not say....

And He Himself gave us the Bible (which is a translation with some misleading ​

readings and mistakes) to be read, and subjectively abused by unstable religious people..​

​

Agree, wholeheartedly.​

 

[Genez]

But God determined in eternity to effectually call Abraham's descendants OUT of the world. So, what is your point?

Where is your chapter and verses?

Besides, you are not out of the world, until removed.
Until removed? You are going to be the world.

Ephesians 2:4-6
Amplified Bible

But God, being [so very] rich in mercy, because of His great and wonderful love with which He loved us, ​

even when we were [spiritually] dead and separated from Him because of our sins, He made us [spiritually] alive together with Christ (for by His grace—His undeserved favor and mercy—you have been saved from ​

God’s judgment). And He raised us up together with Him [when we believed], and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, [because we are] in Christ Jesus.​

​

This when we first became not of this world!

And He raised us up together with Him [when we believed], and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, [because we are] in Christ Jesus.​

​

You could use some lessons in what constitutes positional truth vs experiential truth.
For you make no distinction and end up being over condidently confused.

.....

 

[Rufus]

And yet no one has shown "regeneration before faith" explicitly taught in scripture.

Til you can make a good case connecting this supposed "total inability" to soteriology, the doctrine has no legs, it it still running on very light implication or eisegesis.

That's a lie! What part of 2Thes 2:13 and 1Pet 1:2-5 can't you understand? See also Jn 11:26.

 

[Magenta]

That's a lie! What part of 2Thes 2:13 and 1Pet 1:2-5 can't you understand? See also Jn 11:26.

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

 

[Rufus]

Where is your chapter and verses?

Besides, you are not out of the world, until removed.
Until removed? You are going to be the world.

Ephesians 2:4-6
Amplified Bible

But God, being [so very] rich in mercy, because of His great and wonderful love with which He loved us, ​

even when we were [spiritually] dead and separated from Him because of our sins, He made us [spiritually] alive together with Christ (for by His grace—His undeserved favor and mercy—you have been saved from ​

God’s judgment). And He raised us up together with Him [when we believed], and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, [because we are] in Christ Jesus.​

​

This when we first became not of this world!

And He raised us up together with Him [when we believed], and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, [because we are] in Christ Jesus.​

​

You could use some lessons in what constitutes positional truth vs experiential truth.
For you make no distinction and end up being over condidently confused.

.....

But unlike YOU, I'm not OF this world anymore than Christ was or his disciples were (Jn 17:6, 16).