Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (2 Cor ch 3 v 17). If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ (Rom 8 v 9b). The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him (from John 14 v 17). Those not in Christ are not free (see Heb 2 v 15). Praise God if He has rescued you from the dominion of darkness! (see Col 1 v 13)

 

[Magenta]

From: John 8 verse 34; 2 Peter 2 verse 19a; Galatians 4 verse 8; Romans 7 verse 14; Ephesians 2 verse 3b; Romans 6 verse 6 ~ “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.” They are slaves of corruption. When you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. You were of the flesh, sold under sin. We were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Our old self was crucified so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

 

[NightTwister]

You do realize I normally have you on ignore?

I finally had to put almost all of them on ignore. It was too tempting for me to get caught up in the ad hominem attacks. That's not who I want to be.

 

[HeIsHere]

OK ... I now get it.

I now know why the Lord led me here.

It is for gaslight testing.

Some here can care less about Biblical accuracy.
Yet, they claim to be the ones who have accuracy...

I showed Magenta Scripture.
No one has refuted what was said.
They can only resort to name-calling.

I pity some here for when they go before the Lord for their evaluation.
I wish it were not so.

Unless you repent.
You are going to be so sorry.


.....

Do you really think they care about truth? they should be sorry, they should be begging forgiveness for promoting a false soteriology but they are not, they double down.
They have not a clue how to read scripture at all, they have been instructed in this doctrine by some pastor or high profile Reformed writer.

It is obvious the game is to suppress the truth.

They are very good at making themselves look big and intimidating, you know like puffer fish.
My mom often stated you cannot reason with a one year old, they do not have that ability, that is somewhat what this thread is like.

But we know that Reformed doctrine ....
closes the door of salvation to most people
takes away our responsibility to believe >>> to believe on Christ Jesus and His work on our behalf!!

The Bible, God's word for all, opens the door of salvation up to all people and tells us to choose whom we will serve.

We must pray diligently this doctrine looses it foothold in the churches or we will head into another dark age.

 

[Gpianolf]

I had a feeling it was going to go this way, it often does with freedom of thought lol.

The most credible and acceptable answer which answers The whole plot before you lose the plot, is just not accepted by freedom of choice or thought. but it is by his permissive will

Giving you freedom of thought is so that when the times comes to accept pollination his permissive will inside there heart could overcome the freedom of thought and accept pollination

Of course we then have animals created with one intended purpose all capable of doing harm to other animals when not accepting pollination, of course you should have freedom of thought m

I think I'll have to agree to disagree on this point. Personally, I don't see anything remotely similar to what you're saying in Scripture. I follow the logic, but I just don't agree with the logic or framework. If I understand you correctly, several assumptions are made about how salvation and sanctification work that are inconsistent with how Scripture defines them.

But at the end of the day, if you agree that Christ Jesus is the only way to the Father, that he lived a perfect life, died the ultimate death, rose again on the third day, literally ascended and sits at the right of the Father, that He is calling a people to Himself, that God is a triune God, and that one day we will live and reign with Him in glory, a new heaven and a new earth, then we can healthy disagree on this point. I certainly appreciate the time you've taken to explain your thoughts. There are a few on here who seem to fight to be right at all costs. So thank you.

 

[Gpianolf]

Do you really think they care about truth? they should be sorry, they should be begging forgiveness for promoting a false soteriology but they are not, they double down.
They have not clue how to read scripture at all, they have been instructed in this doctrine by some pastor or high profile Reformed writer.

It is obvious the game is to suppress the truth.

They are very good at making themselves look big and intimidating, you know like puffer fish.
My mom often stated you cannot reason with a one year old, they do not have that ability, that is somewhat what this thread is like.

But we know that Reformed doctrine ....
closes the door of salvation to most people
takes away our responsibility to believe >>> to believe on Christ Jesus and His work on our behalf!!

The Bible, God's word for all, opens the door of salvation up to all people and tells us to choose whom we will serve.

We must pray diligently this doctrine looses it foothold in the churches or we will head into another dark age.

This is a gross misrepresentation of what Reformed folk think and believe.

 

[Jordon]

From: John 8 verse 34; 2 Peter 2 verse 19a; Galatians 4 verse 8; Romans 7 verse 14; Ephesians 2 verse 3b; Romans 6 verse 6 ~ “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.” They are slaves of corruption. When you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. You were of the flesh, sold under sin. We were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Our old self was crucified so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

Could it be the biggest of all puzzling problems is how can a person still sin once saved for most people could it be that's the real underlying issue that throws everyone of the path.

I believe it all boils down to to the first seed of Adam that if the seed of Adam had been pollinated before sin entered it
It may well have never have suffered any sin being able to enter.

So it must be we have a dual complexity then freedom of thought and his permissive will

The bible speaks of a glorified body.
Could it be if Adam had been been pollinated before sin entered, he could have the eaten from the tree of life, and lived for ever as God does intends to give mankind an eternal glorified body.

Which again is so is Diffacult to fully believe with freedom of choice. But what is the glorified body, is it making reference it will be like flesh but in spiritual imperishable form

Im hoping someone has more light they can shine for me on this one m

 

[HeIsHere]

This is a gross misrepresentation of what Reformed folk think and believe.

Yes we know... that is the standard line to deflect.

You should think on why this response is so common.

 

[Jordon]

I think I'll have to agree to disagree on this point. Personally, I don't see anything remotely similar to what you're saying in Scripture. I follow the logic, but I just don't agree with the logic or framework. If I understand you correctly, several assumptions are made about how salvation and sanctification work that are inconsistent with how Scripture defines them.

But at the end of the day, if you agree that Christ Jesus is the only way to the Father, that he lived a perfect life, died the ultimate death, rose again on the third day, literally ascended and sits at the right of the Father, that He is calling a people to Himself, that God is a triune God, and that one day we will live and reign with Him in glory, a new heaven and a new earth, then we can healthy disagree on this point. I certainly appreciate the time you've taken to explain your thoughts. There are a few on here who seem to fight to be right at all costs. So thank you.

you dont see anything remotely like that in scripture ?

May I ask before I continue in this discussion are you completely sure of this

 

[Gpianolf]

Yes we know... that is the standard line to deflect.

You should think on why this response is so common.

Oh, I know exactly why this is a common representation of Reformed thought. And I am not deflecting. I stated a fact. Look, I understand the hostility. I understand the concern. Truly. I felt the same way for a long time. But until you make a concerted effort to understand what is actually being said and taught, you'll continue to misrepresent them. I have made a clear point to highlight assumptions both sides make about each other, and I stand by that. Assumptions are gnarly, vicious, and divisive. We MUST constantly check ourselves and our arguments for them.

However, I don't know you, and I don't believe in hiding behind a screen to attack others. I'm just here to converse, encourage, provide my own convictions on these topics, and sharpen and be sharpened. I'm not here to argue or put down others. Unless it's heresy. But even then, I won't attack the person; I will only attack the ideology.

 

[Jordon]

Oh, I know exactly why this is a common representation of Reformed thought. And I am not deflecting. I stated a fact. Look, I understand the hostility. I understand the concern. Truly. I felt the same way for a long time. But until you make a concerted effort to understand what is actually being said and taught, you'll continue to misrepresent them. I have made a clear point to highlight assumptions both sides make about each other, and I stand by that. Assumptions are gnarly, vicious, and divisive. We MUST constantly check ourselves and our arguments for them.

However, I don't know you, and I don't believe in hiding behind a screen to attack others. I'm just here to converse, encourage, provide my own convictions on these topics, and sharpen and be sharpened. I'm not here to argue or put down others. Unless it's heresy. But even then, I won't attack the person; I will only attack the ideology.

how can a person accept your invitation to let you attack there ideology m ?

 

[Cameron143]

This is a gross misrepresentation of what Reformed folk think and believe.

While you are absolutely correct, you are posting with those who believe that love is the only attribute of God and that Jericho was evangelistic outreach. They actually believe what was posted is accurate.

 

[HeIsHere]

Oh, I know exactly why this is a common representation of Reformed thought. And I am not deflecting. I stated a fact. Look, I understand the hostility. I understand the concern. Truly. I felt the same way for a long time. But until you make a concerted effort to understand what is actually being said and taught, you'll continue to misrepresent them. I have made a clear point to highlight assumptions both sides make about each other, and I stand by that. Assumptions are gnarly, vicious, and divisive. We MUST constantly check ourselves and our arguments for them.

However, I don't know you, and I don't believe in hiding behind a screen to attack others. I'm just here to converse, encourage, provide my own convictions on these topics, and sharpen and be sharpened. I'm not here to argue or put down others. Unless it's heresy. But even then, I won't attack the person; I will only attack the ideology.

Can you tell me the person I must read to actually understand Reformed theology?

Please feel to set the record straight, I see you missed that?

 

[Gpianolf]

you dont see anything remotely like that in scripture ?

May I ask before I continue in this discussion are you completely sure of this

I don't. And again, I mean no offense when I say this, but there can be a tendency when reading Scripture to take the things that pop out to us and place them on a level that God didn't intend. Our interpretation of Scripture can be fallible. Since that is true, we must continually return to Scripture and ask ourselves what the plain things are. Someone once said of Scripture, "The plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." Why is this important? Because what can be plainly understood from Scripture is the most important. Don't misunderstand me, it's all important. But, for instance, if we take Paul's comments on the "heaven that is above, she is our mother" out of context and promote it to a primary gospel truth, you'll end up preaching and teaching others that there is a mother god, as in the case of the World Mission Society Church of God. We aren't all scholarly or academic theologians. We are all theologians, though.

For me, the best extrabiblical tool I have ever had is the New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. It contains every possible cross-reference in Scripture. It helps show you how to allow Scripture to define and interpret Scripture. Exceedingly helpful.

 

[Jordon]

While you are absolutely correct, you are posting with those who believe that love is the only attribute of God and that Jericho was evangelistic outreach. They actually believe what was posted is accurate.

Love conquers all tho m

 

[Blue155]

Yes.

 

[Jordon]

I don't. And again, I mean no offense when I say this, but there can be a tendency when reading Scripture to take the things that pop out to us and place them on a level that God didn't intend. Our interpretation of Scripture can be fallible. Since that is true, we must continually return to Scripture and ask ourselves what the plain things are. Someone once said of Scripture, "The plain things are the main things and the main things are the plain things." Why is this important? Because what can be plainly understood from Scripture is the most important. Don't misunderstand me, it's all important. But, for instance, if we take Paul's comments on the "heaven that is above, she is our mother" out of context and promote it to a primary gospel truth, you'll end up preaching and teaching others that there is a mother god, as in the case of the World Mission Society Church of God. We aren't all scholarly or academic theologians. We are all theologians, though.

For me, the best extrabiblical tool I have ever had is the New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge. It contains every possible cross-reference in Scripture. It helps show you how to allow Scripture to define and interpret Scripture. Exceedingly helpful.

ok well it's look like you've made your choice then m but i ant giving you invitation to see which is clearly true of God as an ideology I have.

Gods permissive will of what he allows in a persons heart can be seen in nearly every verse in the bible as can the man's freedom of thought.

And you want to tell me it's no where to be seen.

Ok m you don't have my permission to attack me. Because it's not an ideology

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Could it be the biggest of all puzzling problems is how can a person still sin once saved for most people could it be that's the real underlying issue that throws everyone of the path.

I believe it all boils down to to the first seed of Adam that if the seed of Adam had been pollinated before sin entered it
It may well have never have suffered any sin being able to enter.

So it must be we have a dual complexity then freedom of thought and his permissive will

The bible speaks of a glorified body.
Could it be if Adam had been been pollinated before sin entered, he could have the eaten from the tree of life, and lived for ever as God does intends to give mankind an eternal glorified body.

Which again is so is Diffacult to fully believe with freedom of choice. But what is the glorified body, is it making reference it will be like flesh but in spiritual imperishable form

Im hoping someone has more light they can shine for me on this one m

what point would you like light to shine upon, Jordon?

you spoke of "how can a person still sin once saved" ...

you spoke of "dual complexity then freedom of thought and his permissive will" ... and is that God's permissive will you refer to?

you spoke of the "glorified body" ...

what specifically would you like to see from Scripture ?

.

 

[Jordon]

what point would you like light to shine upon, Jordon?

you spoke of "how can a person still sin once saved" ...

you spoke of "dual complexity then freedom of thought and his permissive will" ... and is that God's permissive will you refer to?

you spoke of the "glorified body" ...

what specifically would you like to see from Scripture ?

.

anything my little pony

 

[Gpianolf]

Can you tell me the person I must read to actually understand Reformed theology?

Please feel to set the record straight, I see you missed that?

Apologies if I missed something. There's a lot to keep up with on this thread. HAHA

I would just start with the basics. You know the whole go to the horse's mouth saying. Read people old and new, like John Calvin (who, I would argue, didn't teach everything Calvinists are now accused of teaching), all the way up to John MacArthur. It's good to know that "Calvinism" isn't a standalone teaching. John Calvin was in a long line of historical thought. But aside from John Calvin and Calvinism, Charles Spurgeon was the Billy Graham of his day, so he would be good to read. Look for John Owen, John Bunyan, J.I. Packer, Paul Washer, R.C. Sproul, Dane Ortlund, D.A. Carson, John Frame. That's just to name a few. And if any of those names give any of you the idea that you know exactly what kind of person I am, chill out. I was asked for names that would help in a particular study.