Can a Christian lose salvation?

[Magenta]

Fair enough. In Philippians 1:6 what does it mean that He who began the work will continue until the day of Jesus Christ?

It is God Who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.

Also from Philippians (2:13)

 

[Cameron143]

The key thing that's always overlooked or ignored is where it says "in Christ Jesus." If we don't endure, if we don't hold fast to the truth and remain in Him, we've jumped out of the life boat. At what point will this result in disaster is anyone's guess; so it's best to just stay in the lifeboat and be thankful.

You have already overlooked who did it. We didn't, God did. Philippians 1:6 says He will continue to work in us until the day of Christ.
What actually gets overlooked is how to know we are actually in Christ. The fruit that reveals this is not the outward obedience we by our wills produce. It is the love, peace, joy etc that is produced in us bytheHolySpirit. The Pharisees looked awesome outwardly. But they certainly weren't in Christ.
Someone going to church every week, tithing, working in ministry may or may not be in Christ. Someone who exudes love, gentleness, and longsuffering most assuredly are.
Rather than trying to stay in Christ, whatever that means, we should be endeavoring with all diligence to get into the presence of God where we are changed from glory to glory.

 

[Cameron143]

It is God Who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.

Also from Philippians (2:13)

I knew you would have to top me. And after I did your math homework. Smh.

 

[oyster67]

I don’t agree with that. I believe death means ceasing to exist. No feelings, no thoughts, no existence. It’s got to be the exact opposite of eternal life.

Technically, the "exact opposite" of eternal bliss is everlasting punishment. I think that this is what the Bible is talking about when it says..
Matthew 25:46
“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”

 

[Magenta]

I knew you would have to top me. And after I did your math homework. Smh.

Philippians 1:6

 

[Papermonkey]

Amen.

We'll agree to disagree.😊

Sorry @Magenta , my reply was only to Oyster.

 

[CS1]

Fair enough. In Philippians 1:6 what does it mean that He who began the work will continue until the day of Jesus Christ?

it means to me if you continue to run the race, as paul said, God, will work through what HE started. Paul finished his race. Yet God gets the glory

 

[Cameron143]

it means to me if you continue to run the race, as paul said, God, will work through what HE started. Paul finished his race. Yet God gets the glory

Ok. Thanks for responding

 

[Runningman]

Technically, the "exact opposite" of eternal bliss is everlasting punishment. I think that this is what the Bible is talking about when it says..
Matthew 25:46
“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”

I don’t want to assume, though it is commonly said that heaven is eternal bliss. Where does the Bible actually say that?

 

[Runningman]

Spiritually, we are already there. In the coming ages, the Lord will change our bodies to match our saved spiritual state. That's the glorious redemption Paul is pointing to here.

I’m not so sure about that. Seems all of the writers is the New Testament expected salvation to come in the age to come or, as Peter said, in the last time. Peter called it a “living hope” and said the inheritance is kept in heaven. An inheritance is not received immediately, but rather once a condition is met. The inheritance is in heaven, but we’re on earth.

1 Peter 1
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.

 

[oyster67]

I don’t want to assume, though it is commonly said that heaven is eternal bliss. Where does the Bible actually say that?

Isaiah 51:11
“Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.”

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

The Bible is very clear that a Believer can have their name blotted out from the Lamb’s book of Life. Rev. 3:5
Remember, only a Disciple is a Christian (following Christ). Acts 11:26
Disciples are called Christians (Acts 11:26). So to be a Christian we must be a Disciple which are those who are following Christ.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

The Bible is very clear that a Believer can have their name blotted out from the Lamb’s book of Life.

Must be UNbelievers, all of whom God Desired To Be Saved, but because they
Never believed, were "blotted out." 12-Dozen Reasons believers are Never
"blotted out":

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Must be UNbelievers, all of whom God Desired To Be Saved, but because they
Never believed, were "blotted out." 12-Dozen Reasons believers are Never
"blotted out":

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance

The Bible teaches us there will be a fallen away (apostasy).

 

[PennEd]

I always hear from the you can become UN-born again, and lose your salvation folks, some form of :
“Yeah, God won’t leave you, but you can walk away and leave Him”.

This is impossible for the.born again believer. If you believe you can lose your Salvation, then you MUST also believe God leaves and forsakes YOU.

This is the blind spot to these people. WE, are not only in HIM, but HE also lives in US!

Here are just a few examples:

Galatians 2:20—“It is Christ who lives in me”

“I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself up for me.”​

Colossians 1:27—“Christ in you”

“To whom God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which isChrist in you, the hope of glory.”​

 

[Runningman]

It's not good if a Christian believes they are invincible to losing their salvation especially since the Bible is pretty clear the righteous can lose it.

Despite the clever arguments and wordsmithing to the contrary, the plain verses that warn against apostasy aren't going away. This is a reality check. These kind of threads get a lot of traction, and rightly so, because so much is at stake.

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

In regards to partakers of the Holy Spirit, the word translated “partaker” can certainly refer to a saving partaking in Christ, as we read in Hebrews 3:14, yet it can also refer to a less than saving association or participation. See Luke 5:7 and Hebrews 1:9 - "comrades, companions," which describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an undertaking. These Hebrews who fell away had obviously in some aspect shared in the ministry of the Holy Spirit, but in what way? There are other ministries of the Holy Spirit which precede receiving the indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit, which only genuine believers receive..

Those who fall away absolutely could have been affiliated closely with the fellowship of the church. Such people certainly may have experienced sorrow for sin, heard and understood the gospel and have given some assent to it and have become associated with the work of the Holy Spirit while around believers and have tasted the heavenly gift and the powers of the age to come. They may have been exposed to the true preaching of the word of God, yet have simply tasted and stopped there.

In regards to tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of the quality of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." Do we merely "taste" into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13)

People who have experienced these positive factors may be genuine Christians, yet these factors alone are not enough to give conclusive evidence that the beginning stages of the Christian life (repentance unto life, regeneration, salvation, justification, adoption etc..) have taken place for those who fell away. The experiences in Hebrews 6:4-6 are all preliminary to those decisive beginning stages of becoming a Christian, yet some draw back to perdition after receiving the 'knowledge' of the truth and do not believe to the saving of the soul, as we see in (Hebrews 10:39).

These certain individuals who fall short of obtaining salvation certainly may have become partakers of the Holy Spirit in his pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin and righteousness and judgment to come by tasting the good word of God and temporarily responded to His drawing power which is intended to ultimately lead sinners to Christ, yet the writer of Hebrews does not use conclusive terms that these individuals were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit" or have "received the Spirit's pledge which is the guarantee of future inheritance." Genuine believers who have truly believed the gospel are sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13,14; 4:30)

We must not confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture. The end result culminates in putting the cart before the horse and teaching salvation by works. The good deeds of the redeemed (those who have done good) are not the basis of obtaining salvation but the evidence of it. A person's conduct, whether good or evil, reveals the condition of his heart.

Doing good flows from a heart that is saved and doing evil flows from a heart that is unsaved. Notice that ALL who come forth unto the resurrection of life (believers - vs. 24) are described as those who have done good (a good tree bears good fruit) and ALL that come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (unbelievers) are described as those who have done evil. (but a bad tree bears bad fruit)

Again, notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved.

Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. This is descriptive of unbelievers. Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9).

What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we obtained salvation, but the type of deeds produced expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1, but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. Also see (Romans 4:2-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

Key word. Those who practice the sins in Galatians 5:19-21.

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Paul gives a similar list of sins (in which practicing such sins is implied) describes such people as the unrighteous IN CONTRAST with those who truly are saved in verse 11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Those who practice such sins are not born of God, as we read in 1 John 3:9.

Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

It is senseless to use their diligence as a premise for being on the right path if the examples in Hebrews 6:4-8 did not apply to the saved, yet the writer is convinced of better things because

Hebrews 6:10
For God is not unjust. He will not forget your work and the love you have shown for His name as you have ministered to the saints and continue to do so.


Because of your works and Love I am convinced those examples will not happen to you, even though they would not happen to you regardless of your works and love(?) -- should be uncomfortably nonsensical.

It is more intuitive that the writer is giving two examples (including verses 4-6) of the consequences of starting as believers but not remaining diligent, comforts them in verses 9-10 by noting their diligence, and finishes the topic with

Hebrews 6:11-12
We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. Then you will not be sluggish, but will imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.

Rather than suggesting their diligence is keeping them out of a trouble they wouldn't be in regardless. But yes, the word can mean "partner" in effect. Verses 7-8 also talks about receiving blessings in futility and the first half of it seems analogous for those who are safe from being burned in hell (unless there are some unsaved people who are safe from being burned and some who are in danger)

Hebrews 6:7-8
For land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is tended receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned.

Therefore, do not continue to produce thorns and thistles.



It is telling that the conclusion in concern is that God will judge our works considering how dependent my statements were on quoting scripture.

If your point was somehow true it would be irrelevant since there is a direct correlation between good works and eternal life
John 5:28-29
Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.


further, Paul clearly tells believers to not

Romans 6:12
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires.

Which is apparently practicing sin, after calling them alive to God in Christ Jesus in Romans 6:11. Paul also warns Galatians that apparently had faith in Christ Jesus to not do various sins which is senseless unless they could do it and that is inescapable. Yes those who practice sin are not born of God. Yes those who are born of God have the choice to start doing this

Romans 6:12
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires.

Does that mean they are no longer born of God? If it does then, rather than contorting that to fit osas, one should leave it alone and accept that believers can do this (along with its implications) which scriptures in Galatians 5 and 6 indicate they will not inherit eternal life or the Kingdom of God if they do.

 

[wattie]

The key thing here is seperating what verses about serving God AFTER having been converted and verses that are about getting eternal life in the first place.

So for example.. James 2.. 'faith without works is dead'

The examples James gives are of people who already have faith, who have believed and converted earlier... who are demonstrating their faith. Abraham believed in God and righteousness imputed to him before he offered up his son Isaac.

Rahab-- sheltering people from harm.. was demonstrating faith she already had.

Same with the other examples.

It wasn't that they wouldn't be saved if they didn't demonstrate their faith.. or that they never had faith to start with. They were just using what they already were given. Exercising faith in Christ daily.

So-- THE faith-- the exercising of faith after salvation without works.. is lifeless, unused. Not dead as in gone.. lost.. but unused.. dormant.

So there is the initial faith at receiving eternal salvation.. then afterward there is works that if believers do them.. will have a fruiful life in Christ. Without doing them.. they won't lose eternal salvation, but lose rewards.. expect discipline and rebuke.

That's real relationship.. not a works based contract.

 

[Encouragement]

I'm on the fence about one way to lose your slavation and sure on one other.

First, I'm not sure if one gets truly saved and he continues to sin with no change in his life if he will go to Heaven. I do not like works based salvation and don't believe that one can ATTAIN salvation through works, but can some lose it if they never repented? Something to think about. If he lived exactly like he did before. Did such man repent? You can't go to Heaven without repenting.

Second way Im sure you can lose your "salvation" is if you apostate. Like Matt Dillahunty. He was a self professed born again Christian for 20 years then totally left the faith and became an atheist in college.
He did not remain in the faith. He lost it.

Yes there was a time when I totally turned to a life of sin... and stopped going to church too..this all happened many years ago and my life was far from God.I was still aware of God and still prayed yet my lifestyle was totally sinful..ie..living like the would does..and I wasn't bothered enough to stop that life style.One night driving home with drugs in my car I should of collided with another car in front but "miraculously" didn't.I knew this was a warning from God to repent and leave that sinful life style...?or else I would perish.
I knew that if I died In that moment i wouldn't go to heaven for sure.Praise God my family were praying for me for months and i came back to God and changed my life around with his help...it was a process.
So from my experience yet it is possible to loose your salvation in that sense.However its extremely hard to loose it if you have a genuine desire for God yet are struggling with certain sins in ones life.However sometimes certain areas of your life that haven't been dealt with can actual shipwreck ones life...
Ultimately it's only God who can make a true assessment of a person's life before him.Remember in the book of revelation jesus spoke to the 7 churches and how they were perceived by others and how they saw themselves wasn't the same as how jesus saw them.
Life is a battle but God's willing to help us overcome the things that make us stumble heavily.I guess some people we see their lives turn the other way from the lord..yet we never always see how their life ends...for some I am sure at some point there's a repentance before they die.For some maybe not.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Yes there was a time when I totally turned to a life of sin... and stopped going to church too..this all happened many years ago and my life was far from God.

So, you believe The Bible teaches a "yo-yo" (not very encouraging) salvation: saved - lost - saved again, etc.?

All The Scripture (Very Encouraging!) Passages Harmonized, Teach God's:

"One-Time Grace Through faith Salvation":​

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance
----------------------------------
Precious friend:

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!