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Ha ha ha! Good thinking! In EITHER case it is an Aorist verb that shows no tense.

As I said, all this is human reasoning not understanding the scriptures. Did Jesus resurrect from the dead? Yes, we all know He did. Therefore HIS resurrection must fit in ONE or the OTHER shown in Rev. 20. I will let you choose which one.

Do you really believe Jesus will harvest with a sickle? This is symbolic and I also thing prophetic. The harvest does not take place in the timeframe of chapter 14, some unknown time after the midpoint of the week. This is prophecy looking ahead to chapter 15 when the beheaded begin to show up...

This is just human reasoning gone wrong. All the righteous will take part in the first resurrection, but in their order. Christ was first, then the church when He comes to the air, then the 144,000, then the OT saints along with the Two Witnesses and those beheaded.

No, not Hal, it came from PAUL. Who do you think will get the "sudden destruction?" It will be all those "left behind." That is very scriptural. What basis? Suppose a child of God has NO FAITH In a pretrib rapture? They will not be expecting Him. Everything we get from heaven we get by and...

It is written, my sheep hear my voice..." It is not unusual. We ALL should hear Him.

You should not be so quick to agree! Did you not read? The AC does not even SHOW UP until the midpoint of the "trib." And the days of GT Jesus spoke of really don't start until late in chapter 14. The truth is, the first half of the "trib" or 70th week is the first 6 trumpet judgments. (I...

Evmur, if you wish to remain behind and "tribulate," I believe God would honor that. But WHY, when God has promised a way of escape?

No, sorry, but this is not true. A vision can be of any time: we must determine the time by what is seen in the vision. The truth is, God started this vision while Jesus was still on earth or under the earth, then took the reader through His resurection and then finally His ascension and sending...

Yes, of course, but I was talking about INSIDE THE VISION. Jesus started this vision of a time before Jesus ascended.

Good post, but your timing is off on the sealing. They are sealed just before the trumpet judgments begin, and they begin with the 70th week. God has marked the 70th week wish 7's: it starts with the 7th seal, midpoint 7th trumpet and end is 7th vial. John was marching right through the...

No, because the church is going pretrib. Those left behind who then turn to God - the tribulation saints - cannot escape God's wrath, OR the devil's wrath. It is written that they will be overcome.

If only you followed the TEXT rather than preconceived theories. Gods wrath BEGINS at the 6th seal, before ANY PART of "the trib" which begins at the 7th seal. So God's wrath begins, THEN the tribulation begins, showing us that EVERY trumpet judgment and every vial come with God's wrath.

Except that when the days of GT reach a peak, God then pours out the vials of His wrath to shorten those days. The truth then is, God's wrath and Satan's wrath are simultaneous. Next, the AC does not come to power until after the midpoint. It is LATE in the 70th week that the says of GT come...

It's a good post, but you made it look as if the 5th seal martyrs were martyr during the days of GT. That simply cannot be true, The days of GT Jesus spoke of will not begin until the last half of the week. Then from John we learn that the Beast and False prophet or responsible for these days...

Except in context, Rev. 4 is before Jesus died. Therefore we really don't know why these 24 are. (We see His death and resurrection and then ascension in chapter 5.

Nice try: you will go to any lengths to sidestep what is really written. And, in fact, you err. it is a Greek AORIST tense. "Aorist" means "undefined." Although frequently translated as past tense, it really is undefined as far as tense. As one Greek scholar wrote, "not inflected to show...

You can say that but it does not make it true. Until He actually shed His blood and redeemed men, He was not authorized to take the book and open the seals. What does the TEXT say? 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou...

Lamad said, Then eqw said, It is as if you think being a planned redeemer was all that was necessary. What does the TEXT say? Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood He was worthy to take the book...

No strawman. It was YOU that suggest Jesus was really slain from the foundation of the world - as if you could not tell the difference between God's pre-planing and the actual sacrifice. You can say "He as always worthy" but the Angel was looking for the redeemer - the REAL one, not the...