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  1. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    Who belongs to the First Resurrection? There's only two, one to life and one to condemnation. John 5:29 and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. If the resurrection of the Church doesn't occur...
  2. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    He confessed Jesus as Messiah, the One sent by God to save. It is upon that confession the Church is built.
  3. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    i didn't say it was built on him, I said it was built on his example of faith.
  4. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    If the saved are off to their mansions in heaven and the unsaved are destroyed, who is left on earth to go enjoy the Millennium?
  5. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    I'll be the first to admit that I have seen a problem with the question of the Bride for sometime now but it is something I have had in the back of my mind because I keep finding questions I cannot answer. You say the original 12 were not given over to the Church but the Church didn't exist at...
  6. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    You don't seem to read very well. I had never heard of Darby or Plymouth Brethen or Dispensationalism. I read scripture and saw God deal with people differently at different times ergo I was a Dispensationalist before I even knew of such a thing.
  7. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    I was responding to your assertion that the understanding of the resurrection of the Church occurring prior to the Great Tribulation was from a particular school of thought. I came to that conclusion based on what I read in scripture, not from any scholarly school of thought. I was a...
  8. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    Yes they were but were they given to Israel or the Church? I repeat though, I don't hold to replacement theology. Sometimes working out the precise understanding of what the word means takes a lot of questioning and thinking and more questions and more thinking and then even more thinking. ;) :)
  9. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    That is how I basically came at it. I found out I was a dispensationalist before I even knew what that was. To me it is clear God has dealt differently with different people at different times. In some ways, it is no different to how I raised my children. Different ages required different...
  10. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    I'm not sure if "help" is the right word as it does raise some degree of anomaly if only on the surface. ;) It fails to address the issue of the Apostles being the foundation of the Bride or any of the NT scriptures that speak of the Church as if she is Christ's wife. I will continue to look...
  11. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    Actually, in my case, it came as I read the scriptures. I had never heard of dispensationalism or futurism or any other "ism' you care to mention. When I became a Christian, it was like having to learn a new language, for not being raised in a Christian home, most doctrinal titles were foreign...
  12. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    Thankyou. I will take a look as I have time. :)
  13. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    I've given some thought to what you have presented here and I have to say I remain unconvinced at this stage. My first thought is, if this is Israel, why are the Apostles listed as the foundation? Surely Abraham, Isaac and Jacob form the foundation of Israel. Also, are not the Apostles given...
  14. sawdust

    Gods will vs mans free will

    No he is not right because he assumes freedom means "without restraint" but that is not free at all. There can only be true freedom when true authority (restraint) is exerted. Without authority there is only chaos.
  15. sawdust

    Gods will vs mans free will

    But I showed you the word translated born or begotten is not monogenes as you keep trying to tell us but is gegennemenos. You want to ignore your basic premise is wrong, go ahead. I'm moving on. Have a nice day.
  16. sawdust

    Gods will vs mans free will

    No we are not. We are born with a sin nature and that is in the body not the mind. Romans 7 could not be true if we were born with evil hearts (souls).
  17. sawdust

    Gods will vs mans free will

    And the rest of my post? Will you ignore the fact what you want begotten to mean in 1Jn.3:9 does not say monogenes?
  18. sawdust

    Gods will vs mans free will

    Yes inherited sin nature, not evil nature. Adam was not created evil nor did he become evil when sinned. You understand what inherent means, yes? It means to be born with something. We are not born evil, we are born sinners. The sin nature is a genetically formed corruption in the body, not in...
  19. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    Ah I see. Ok I understand better now why you say what you say. I will need to look into it further although, I'm not sure it is quite as simple as you say. :)
  20. sawdust

    Gods will vs mans free will

    No-one said they were monogenes but the word used in 1Jn.3:9 is the same word used of believers in the other passages I quoted and is not monogenes. The verse begins with "everyone" who is born (begotten) of God. The verse clearly is speaking of believers. Jesus Christ is not everyone, He is...