Attacks on the Rapture: a popular pastime among some Christians

Yes, the way it reads, however, is the many which rose also went into Jerusalem. Where did you get that only some of them which rose went into Jerusalem?
I read it as there are some of those saints which did not rise yet, but many did. But I do see your point of view.

That's where believing EVERY SINGLE WORD EXACTLY as it's written comes into play. If you believe every single word of those verses exactly as written, then it DOES NOT say that only SOME of the Old Testament saints rose from the dead.

Yes, the scripture is quite clear on a post tribulation rapture so that's the doctrine I go with. The only way I see it's possible to justify a pre-trib rapture is jumping around to verses all over the Bible to form a justification for interpreting it that way.

The post-trib rapture doesn't require any interpretation or Bible gymnastics because the Bible clearly lays out what a normal person reading the Bible should expect, especially in Matthew 24 as you cited.

I don't normally spend a lot of time arguing this because I don't believe it's a matter of salvation to be wrong about when the rapture happens, it just means some people won't be prepared which could lead to a downfall.

Yes, it clearly says that many bodies, not all, of the saints arose...

Yes, it clearly says that many bodies, not all, of the saints arose...

1 Cor 15 isnt a mystery as you claim

It clearly shows the timing of the resurrection of the believer to be (Then Cometh The End) (Death is Swallowed Up)
(The Last Day) resurrection 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17

1 Corinthians 15:22-26 & 52-54KJV
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

We see below the second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens and the resurrection of the believer in Jesus Christ.

God's word (CLEARLY TEACHES) that the resurrection takes place on the (LAST DAY) And yes this means (THE LAST DAY)

As Is Clearly Seen, Any Claim Of A (Pre-Trib) rapture is 100% false, This Is (THE LAST DAY)

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17KJV
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

John 6:40KJV
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

AGAIN! Church members in heaven is no conclusive proof they were raptured to get there. There are church members in heaven NOW.

You've never done a bible study on spiritual marking? The seal or mark of God? A principle introduced early in prophecy.
Cain was marked. God has made "that sealed concept" and embedded it in scripture.
The blood of the lamb protects us from the wrath of God. It can't be casually dismissed.

God protected Israel though they were among the Egyptians. He brought them out AFTER his punishment was delivered.
Pharaoh (The antichrist figure) was aware God was taking Israel and he pursued them.

Exodus 12
12 “I will pass through the land of Egypt on that night and strike every firstborn male in the land of Egypt, both people and animals. I am the Lord; I will execute judgements against all the gods of Egypt.

13 The blood on the houses where you are staying will be a distinguishing mark for you; when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No plague will be among you to destroy you when I strike the land of Egypt.


Ezekiel 8
"5 He spoke to the others in my hearing: “Pass through the city after him and start killing; do not show pity or spare them!
6 Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, as well as the children and older women, but do not come near anyone who has the mark.


The 5th Trumpet judgement (locusts) is visited only on those without the mark of God
Rev 9:4 " They were told not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green plant, or any tree, but only those people who do not have God’s seal on their foreheads."

The first bowl of wrath is poured out on people with the mark only.
Rev 16: 2 The first went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and severely painful sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and who worshipped its image.


Every pre-trib rapture believer should re-read Exodus and Ezekiel Chapter 9

Ez 9:4 and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”
5 As I listened, he said to the others, “Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion.
6 Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.” So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.


2 Peter 2:7-8 “...and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)”

Lot wasn't removed before tribulation. He had to endure in the midst of the city of sin and was removed just prior to it's complete annihilation.

Noah wasn't removed before tribulation, he had to endure tribulation but was kept safe through God's wrath on the earth.

Israel weren't removed. They were protected by the blood of the Passover lamb while the plagues came down on the Egyptians.

Shadrach, meshach, and abednego were protected INSIDE the fiery furnace.

Daniel was protected INSIDE the lion's den.

Jonah lived INSIDE a whale 3 days!

God is able to preserve us through tribulation and protect us from his wrath.
No pre-tribulation removal is required.

Yes, we are all caught up together at the same time, however, we are all being changed at different times in preparation for being caught up together. Once we are all changed then we will all be caught up into the clouds.

Removal ‘From’ or Preservation ‘Through’ Tribulation? Error in prophetic truth can exact a serious toll in such things as vigilance, foresight, and the heart’s preparation for patient endurance. We have been advised to endure by Jesus, Daniel, Paul, John and Peter.

Jesus told us not to believe anyone saying "he has come" because everyone will see him.
He did not say "don't worry I will whisk you away when no one is looking years before I come back in glory"

One of the reasons Paul wrote the Thessalonian letters was because they had been taught that they had missed the resurrection/rapture and Paul writes to tell them that TRIBULATION is a sure sign that they had not missed it....

Give me one verse either pointing to it or declaring it.

Yes, it clearly says that many bodies, not all, of the saints arose...

Why don't you try to make your posts less wordy.
I don't need the entire pre-trib doctrine preached at me in every post. I've heard it for decades. I know how it goes.
Frankly it gets boring and you've proved nothing from scripture.

"29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Matthew 24:29-31

The coming wrath of God is not meant for the church. Jesus already satisfied God's wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. Therefore, the Lord is going to keep his promise to come and gather His church prior to God's coming wrath, not after or during. By your claim above, you'd have God punishing the righteous right along with the wicked. People who believe and teach that the church is going to be on the earth do so because they have no idea of the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

What is coming is God's tribulation/wrath, not man's or Satan's.

It says "one end of HEAVEN to the other ".
I agree it is NOT the rapture but a GATHERING in HEAVEN OF SAINTS that are already there.

There are no postrib rapture verses or a pointing to a postrib rapture.

15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

This says Jesus comes back and gathers his elect, those who are alive, meaning those who are on the Earth, into the clouds with Himself. Christ does not return until after the tribulation, which we have already established. If there is a pre-trib rapture, as you posit, how is it there are still Christians around to be gathered on Earth?

There will be a gathering of saints in heaven, as you correctly stated, and a gathering of saints on Earth. This is the rapture and it's post-trib as far as I can tell.

I have yet to see anyone show me anything that remotely suggests pre-trib. What do you have?

I got a better one for ya.
Why are those gathered by Jesus sitting on a cloud in rev 14 DURING THE GT ....PRECEDING THE SUPPOSED resurrection at the end of the gt?

Remember you erroneously believe that 1 thes 4 is paul in conflict with a postrib rapture.

The bible is to be properly understood in entirety...not believing an impossible doctrine.
Once debunked...it is to be discarded (false doctrine)