Do you know what your protesting

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no the question is asked on the bases of a person saying no in a fallen condition, is not fair to them.

So it's fair they should be made temporarily spiritualy alive whilst making the decision
I guess I don't see your premise correctly. Are you saying that every person is made temporarily alive so that it would be fair for God to judge them on their yes or no decision to trust in Christ because fairness could not occur in the fallen state because only a negative decision is possible?
 
I guess I don't see your premise correctly. Are you saying that every person is made temporarily alive so that it would be fair for God to judge them on their yes or no decision to trust in Christ because fairness could not occur in the fallen state because only a negative decision is possible?
The true belief from the reformed faith is everyone is blessed with some kind of inner common grace, which includes God's moral law able to grow in God's mercy.

But all people are still in the same position there all still in a state of being that needs transforming.

So it's believed nobody can be held responsible in this state of being for believing in his son, as in loving his son and having effection for him in a spiritual way.

So whilst in this position if one person say yes and another no, it's not fair the one who has said no should be condemned on the bases both could of said no.

So it's strongly believed all people are made temporarily spiritual alive whilst making the decision, which comes about after growing in an inner inherent mercy.
 
The formula for Catholic faith is

The formula is: faith plus work equals justification + grace plus merit equals justification + Christ and my inherent righteousness that gives me justification.

Our reformed faith crossed out works merit and me to equal

Grace alone + faith alone + Christ alone equals justification

There you have folks. Their "reformed" faith CROSSED out works. Now we know the source of protestants pompous self righteousness.
 
I guess I don't see your premise correctly. Are you saying that every person is made temporarily alive so that it would be fair for God to judge them on their yes or no decision to trust in Christ because fairness could not occur in the fallen state because only a negative decision is possible?

You don't see it correctly but their premise isn't correct.
 
There you have folks. Their "reformed" faith CROSSED out works. Now we know the source of protestants pompous self righteousness.
no we didn't cross out works all together your works are assurance to, but there works of his faith gifted to you, but justification is by his faith alone. By Christ alone by grace alone

Catholic faith believe you can't love God unless you do the xyc formula

Our faith is we love because God first loved us.

Which you've been told several times
 
In this sermon we get clear instruction as to why there is a great divide, between Protestants and Catholics.

Now you could say in some away the end result is the same but I'm not so sure the end result validates my next question , I ask is the journey as peaceful as it is for having assurance as it for not having assurance. And then I ask what would be the good points and bad points of both beliefs.

Next i ask for mature heads and kindness in this debate. Whilst we try to understand it.

Key points of the sermon,

People who call themselves protestants have no idea what it is there protesting or why we have a protestant faith.

The reasons they give is I don't believe in Mary like they do,
Or i don't believe the pope is infallible, or I dont believe in confessing my sins to a priest.

The main reason is to do with being Justified by faith alone.

The main reason protestant faith was formed, was in reactions, to do with arguments on how does a sinner find salvation in Christ.

The main reason is because we can have justification by faith alone. And the reformation side believing it's this article in which the church stands or falls, that this understanding teaches the very core of salvation.

And it's this reason for the devide, and why the fracture of the Christendom, was fractured then, and still fractured to this day.

The very reason being the meaning of justification

The meaning of justification in a Latin meaning, means to make righteous which the roman Catholic church got from just studying the Latin Vulgate bible only , so they never looked at the greek here, the meaning for justification in Latin means to make righteous, which stems from the Roman empire, and not the greek. So the idea of justification from a Catholic perspective, was a sinner had to had to made righteous. So the idea emerged that justification would be after sanctification. So in order to be justified you had to be sanctified to a high level of righteousness that is acceptable to God.

How ever the protestant used the greek meaning of justification, which means to be declared, and they developed a doctrine that justification was given before the process of sanctification.

The question is which way do you go now that you know, now that you know the devide was over the order of salvation

Here's the sermon with other key points part 1 only 23 mins long



What am I?

I believe to be reborn we have to repent, get baptized in JESUS name for remission of sins and JESUS will in fact fill you with the Holy Ghost like HE filled HIS disciples in Acts 2:4.

I believe all of HIS word to be true.

I don't see where we are suppose to confess your sins (AFTER we are reborn) to anyone but JESUS, am I wrong? If so scripture please.

I sure no faith or grace alone doesn't save anyone, but it's start.
 
no we didn't cross out works all together your works are assurance to, but there works of his faith gifted to you, but justification is by his faith alone. By Christ alone by grace alone

Catholic faith believe you can't love God unless you do the xyc formula

Our faith is we love because God first loved us.

Which you've been told several times

The xyz formula is drivel

Protestant faith is recite the magic incantation and you're saved. Your "love" is not love at all.
 
could you define an apostate protestant in your understanding please.
What's the qualifications basically
Short answer .... "Apostate" CHRISTIANS (Protestant) are mostly your denominational churches, that over the last couple centuries have lost biblical Truth, being deceived, to go back to believing the Anti-Christ in Rome. This is primarily due to the teaching of the Futurism / Dispensational theology that is taught in the mainstream seminaries TODAY, after John Nelson Darby developed it, during the mid-1800s, from the Futurist theory of a Jesuit Priest, Francisco Reberra, in 1585, after he was commissioned by the Council of Trent, to develop a "Counter Reformation" theology. This deception has worked well for the anti-Christ Church, as evident by the 10's of millions of believers, in a futurist "Pre-Tribulation" rapture.

Over the last 125+ years this has developed into the Ecumenical Movement, which seeks to unite various religious faith systems under a common banner, which is seen as a significant part of Satan's plan to deceive the world and lead people away from the truth. This movement, is spearheaded by the Roman Catholic Church, being a dangerous attempt to undermine the distinct teachings of the Bible and encourage a watered-down, counterfeit version of Christianity.

The Ecumenical Movement, which promotes unity based on common values such as loving and worshiping God, but without regard for doctrinal differences or obedience to God's commandments, was a strategic move by the Catholic Church. They argued that this movement was part of a broader strategy to reconcile all denominations and religious groups, under the pretense of love and tolerance, without addressing the core issues of truth and obedience to God's laws.

The Roman Catholic Church, has long sought to exert influence over all Christian denominations, and the Ecumenical Movement is viewed as an extension of this desire for religious control. By pushing the idea that love for God and worshiping God are sufficient for salvation, irrespective of doctrinal differences, the Catholic Church aims to dilute the power of specific biblical truths, including the necessity of obeying God’s commandments, such as the Sabbath commandment, and the necessity of faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

In the Bible, particularly in the KJV, God's instructions are clear: salvation is not simply about loving and worshiping God in a vague, non-specific way, but about believing in Jesus Christ, following His teachings, and obeying God's commandments. Revelation 14:12, for example, specifically refers to "the patience of the saints," saying, "here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." This is seen as a contrast to the Ecumenical idea, which might stress general love and worship, but often neglects the importance of obedience and correct doctrine. The world is being misled by this call for unity at the expense of divine truth.

The Ecumenical Movement, therefore, is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy, particularly in the book of Revelation, where the apostate powers of Babylon are seen working to unite the world in false worship (Revelation 17). The Bible repeatedly warn of a global religious unity that overlooks doctrinal purity and obedience to God, ultimately leading to the worship of the beast and his image.

This movement ultimately seeks to unite people under a false sense of security, encouraging them to believe that all paths lead to heaven, as long as they claim to love and worship God. However, the Bible presents salvation as a process that involves correct understanding, belief in Jesus Christ as Savior, and obedience to His commandments, including the seventh-day Sabbath, which Adventists hold as an essential part of God's law and a key symbol of true worship in the last days .

The Ecumenical Movement is not just an innocuous effort to promote peace, but a dangerous deception that undermines the principles of God’s Word, leading people to a counterfeit salvation based on love without obedience, truth without conviction, and unity without doctrine.

In common terms, Jordan ... All those who believe that God's Ten Commandments are not valid, for to be a Christian today, are believing Satan in the Garden of Eden, when he told Eve, to go ahead and disobey God ... "you surely won't die", ... when God had told Adam & Eve that the WOULD DIE!!, for disobeying our Father, and it still is TODAY ! ........ So Jordan ... Who ya gonna believe, Jesus or Satan?

Those believing Satan and his Antichrist agent in Rome, are who I understand to be "Apostate Protestant Christians" ... the False Prophets returning to the "Mother Church" to give authority and worship to the Lord of this world. John 13:30, Ephesians 6:12, Luke 4:5-6

Matthew 7:15
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves."

Matthew 24:11
"And many false prophets will arise and deceive many."


Matthew 24:24
"For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect."


2 Peter 2:1
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves."


1 John 4:1
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."


Jeremiah 14:14
“The prophets are prophesying lies in My name,” replied the LORD. “I did not send them or appoint them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a false vision, a worthless divination, the futility and delusion of their own minds.”


Revelation 19:20
"But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
Short answer .... "Apostate" CHRISTIANS (Protestant) are mostly your denominational churches, that over the last couple centuries have lost biblical Truth, being deceived, to go back to believing the Anti-Christ in Rome. This is primarily due to the teaching of the Futurism / Dispensational theology that is taught in the mainstream seminaries TODAY, after John Nelson Darby developed it, during the mid-1800s, from the Futurist theory of a Jesuit Priest, Francisco Reberra, in 1585, after he was commissioned by the Council of Trent, to develop a "Counter Reformation" theology. This deception has worked well for the anti-Christ Church, as evident by the 10's of millions of believers, in a futurist "Pre-Tribulation" rapture.

Over the last 125+ years this has developed into the Ecumenical Movement, which seeks to unite various religious faith systems under a common banner, which is seen as a significant part of Satan's plan to deceive the world and lead people away from the truth. This movement, is spearheaded by the Roman Catholic Church, being a dangerous attempt to undermine the distinct teachings of the Bible and encourage a watered-down, counterfeit version of Christianity.

The Ecumenical Movement, which promotes unity based on common values such as loving and worshiping God, but without regard for doctrinal differences or obedience to God's commandments, was a strategic move by the Catholic Church. They argued that this movement was part of a broader strategy to reconcile all denominations and religious groups, under the pretense of love and tolerance, without addressing the core issues of truth and obedience to God's laws.

The Roman Catholic Church, has long sought to exert influence over all Christian denominations, and the Ecumenical Movement is viewed as an extension of this desire for religious control. By pushing the idea that love for God and worshiping God are sufficient for salvation, irrespective of doctrinal differences, the Catholic Church aims to dilute the power of specific biblical truths, including the necessity of obeying God’s commandments, such as the Sabbath commandment, and the necessity of faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

In the Bible, particularly in the KJV, God's instructions are clear: salvation is not simply about loving and worshiping God in a vague, non-specific way, but about believing in Jesus Christ, following His teachings, and obeying God's commandments. Revelation 14:12, for example, specifically refers to "the patience of the saints," saying, "here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." This is seen as a contrast to the Ecumenical idea, which might stress general love and worship, but often neglects the importance of obedience and correct doctrine. The world is being misled by this call for unity at the expense of divine truth.

The Ecumenical Movement, therefore, is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy, particularly in the book of Revelation, where the apostate powers of Babylon are seen working to unite the world in false worship (Revelation 17). The Bible repeatedly warn of a global religious unity that overlooks doctrinal purity and obedience to God, ultimately leading to the worship of the beast and his image.

This movement ultimately seeks to unite people under a false sense of security, encouraging them to believe that all paths lead to heaven, as long as they claim to love and worship God. However, the Bible presents salvation as a process that involves correct understanding, belief in Jesus Christ as Savior, and obedience to His commandments, including the seventh-day Sabbath, which Adventists hold as an essential part of God's law and a key symbol of true worship in the last days .

The Ecumenical Movement is not just an innocuous effort to promote peace, but a dangerous deception that undermines the principles of God’s Word, leading people to a counterfeit salvation based on love without obedience, truth without conviction, and unity without doctrine.

In common terms, Jordan ... All those who believe that God's Ten Commandments are not valid, for to be a Christian today, are believing Satan in the Garden of Eden, when he told Eve, to go ahead and disobey God ... "you surely won't die", ... when God had told Adam & Eve that the WOULD DIE!!, for disobeying our Father, and it still is TODAY ! ........ So Jordan ... Who ya gonna believe, Jesus or Satan?

Those believing Satan and his Antichrist agent in Rome, are who I understand to be "Apostate Protestant Christians" ... the False Prophets returning to the "Mother Church" to give authority and worship to the Lord of this world. John 13:30, Ephesians 6:12, Luke 4:5-6

Matthew 7:15
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves."

Matthew 24:11
"And many false prophets will arise and deceive many."


Matthew 24:24
"For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect."


2 Peter 2:1
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves."


1 John 4:1
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."


Jeremiah 14:14
“The prophets are prophesying lies in My name,” replied the LORD. “I did not send them or appoint them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a false vision, a worthless divination, the futility and delusion of their own minds.”


Revelation 19:20
"But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

For 1500 years all there was was the Catholic Church
 
Short answer .... "Apostate" CHRISTIANS (Protestant) are mostly your denominational churches, that over the last couple centuries have lost biblical Truth, being deceived, to go back to believing the Anti-Christ in Rome. This is primarily due to the teaching of the Futurism / Dispensational theology that is taught in the mainstream seminaries TODAY, after John Nelson Darby developed it, during the mid-1800s, from the Futurist theory of a Jesuit Priest, Francisco Reberra, in 1585, after he was commissioned by the Council of Trent, to develop a "Counter Reformation" theology. This deception has worked well for the anti-Christ Church, as evident by the 10's of millions of believers, in a futurist "Pre-Tribulation" rapture.

Over the last 125+ years this has developed into the Ecumenical Movement, which seeks to unite various religious faith systems under a common banner, which is seen as a significant part of Satan's plan to deceive the world and lead people away from the truth. This movement, is spearheaded by the Roman Catholic Church, being a dangerous attempt to undermine the distinct teachings of the Bible and encourage a watered-down, counterfeit version of Christianity.

The Ecumenical Movement, which promotes unity based on common values such as loving and worshiping God, but without regard for doctrinal differences or obedience to God's commandments, was a strategic move by the Catholic Church. They argued that this movement was part of a broader strategy to reconcile all denominations and religious groups, under the pretense of love and tolerance, without addressing the core issues of truth and obedience to God's laws.

The Roman Catholic Church, has long sought to exert influence over all Christian denominations, and the Ecumenical Movement is viewed as an extension of this desire for religious control. By pushing the idea that love for God and worshiping God are sufficient for salvation, irrespective of doctrinal differences, the Catholic Church aims to dilute the power of specific biblical truths, including the necessity of obeying God’s commandments, such as the Sabbath commandment, and the necessity of faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

In the Bible, particularly in the KJV, God's instructions are clear: salvation is not simply about loving and worshiping God in a vague, non-specific way, but about believing in Jesus Christ, following His teachings, and obeying God's commandments. Revelation 14:12, for example, specifically refers to "the patience of the saints," saying, "here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." This is seen as a contrast to the Ecumenical idea, which might stress general love and worship, but often neglects the importance of obedience and correct doctrine. The world is being misled by this call for unity at the expense of divine truth.

The Ecumenical Movement, therefore, is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy, particularly in the book of Revelation, where the apostate powers of Babylon are seen working to unite the world in false worship (Revelation 17). The Bible repeatedly warn of a global religious unity that overlooks doctrinal purity and obedience to God, ultimately leading to the worship of the beast and his image.

This movement ultimately seeks to unite people under a false sense of security, encouraging them to believe that all paths lead to heaven, as long as they claim to love and worship God. However, the Bible presents salvation as a process that involves correct understanding, belief in Jesus Christ as Savior, and obedience to His commandments, including the seventh-day Sabbath, which Adventists hold as an essential part of God's law and a key symbol of true worship in the last days .

The Ecumenical Movement is not just an innocuous effort to promote peace, but a dangerous deception that undermines the principles of God’s Word, leading people to a counterfeit salvation based on love without obedience, truth without conviction, and unity without doctrine.

In common terms, Jordan ... All those who believe that God's Ten Commandments are not valid, for to be a Christian today, are believing Satan in the Garden of Eden, when he told Eve, to go ahead and disobey God ... "you surely won't die", ... when God had told Adam & Eve that the WOULD DIE!!, for disobeying our Father, and it still is TODAY ! ........ So Jordan ... Who ya gonna believe, Jesus or Satan?

Those believing Satan and his Antichrist agent in Rome, are who I understand to be "Apostate Protestant Christians" ... the False Prophets returning to the "Mother Church" to give authority and worship to the Lord of this world. John 13:30, Ephesians 6:12, Luke 4:5-6

Matthew 7:15
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves."

Matthew 24:11
"And many false prophets will arise and deceive many."


Matthew 24:24
"For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect."


2 Peter 2:1
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves."


1 John 4:1
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."


Jeremiah 14:14
“The prophets are prophesying lies in My name,” replied the LORD. “I did not send them or appoint them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a false vision, a worthless divination, the futility and delusion of their own minds.”


Revelation 19:20
"But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
a pre tribulation is a salvation issue for some but not by any member of the church I know that simply calls it's self the united reformed church. We don't even believe in a pre trib rapture, we simply believe we will all meet rwh lord in the air and come straight back down again.


Are you sure your not holding titles up to high here.

Trusting in the lord is really only something all believers should believe for the salvation and why this very discussion is even taking place,

The politics and news, needs to be discussed, which is what your doing.

But why is a seven day adventist completely a better faith or way to go,

Is it on the grounds of honouring the Sabbath and keeping one day a week holy the main reason ?

Or could that be reason to form a protest to ? Overlooking the simple believe of trusting in the lord
 
For 1500 years all there was was the Catholic Church
And millions of truth believing, God obeying, true Christians, hiding from the RCC, in fear for there lives.

Read your church history ... of how the RCC persecuted, hunted and killed 50+ million believers for their Faith in Jesus, rather than the Pope and his presumed authority, as "god on earth".

Read Foxe's "Book of Martyrs", or Ellen White's "The Great Controversy" both, presenting documented history of the Catholics Churches doctrines of Evilness, ... "anti-Christ"-ness..

Don't believe me, do your own due diligence as I have for these past 30+ years.
 
For 1500 years all there was was the Catholic Church

Same church that chose to persecute, torture, and burn people to death, including actual Christians, for not agreeing with RCC doctrine? Wow.

Correct statement: For 2,000+ years there have always been Christians.
 
And millions of truth believing, God obeying, true Christians, hiding from the RCC, in fear for there lives.

Read your church history ... of how the RCC persecuted, hunted and killed 50+ million believers for their Faith in Jesus, rather than the Pope and his presumed authority, as "god on earth".

Read Foxe's "Book of Martyrs", or Ellen White's "The Great Controversy" both, presenting documented history of the Catholics Churches doctrines of Evilness, ... "anti-Christ"-ness..

Don't believe me, do your own due diligence as I have for these past 30+ years.
I've read the church history that also includes the protestant extermination of Catholics. Listen my friend don't think you talk garbage and think I won't call on it.
 
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Same church that chose to persecute, torture, and burn people to death, including actual Christians, for not agreeing with RCC doctrine? Wow.

Correct statement: For 2,000 years there have always been Christians.

Protestants never killed Catholics right? Talking to you people is mind numbing
 
Protestants never killed Catholics right? Talking to you people is mind numbing
I guess what ever question I have will have a another objection from you

But whatever

may i ask you, what does a person do with there own guilt have any grounds you could answer for them.

The more appropriate question would be what do you do with your guilt.

I kinda sense your unsure whether to favour one bias or the other, whether to support Catholicism over another belief.

But whatever your agenda i hope you find the answers your looking for.
.
But I feel it's going to be long old road with you.

We love God because he first loved us.

And to answer your question what does this discussion have something to do with Catholics. it does in away .as the sermon you won't listen to, also addresses understanding sola fide and sola Gratia 😗
 
But why is a seven day adventist completely a better faith or way to go,
We are just Jesus believing Christians, John 14:15, on God's mission for us to proclaim God's last warning to this dying world, just before Christ's SOON Second Advent.

We understand Bible Prophecy, the same way the original Protestant reformers did, which is how they knew they were being persecuted and killed by the "man of lawlessness" ( the Anti-Christ )... 2 Thessalonians 2:3-10

Daniel 7:25 ~>"He will speak words against the Most High, (the pope calling himself "god on Earth") and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, (killing 50+ million, real Christians) ...and shall think to change the times (God's "times"~> "how prophetic times are understood" ) and the law; (removing the 2nd commandment about worshiping idols ~> Exodus 20: 4-5, then splitting the 10th commandment in 2, to make back to 10 commandments, and changing Sabbath to Sunday ) and they (Christians) shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." (1260 days, 42month = day for a year = 1260 years.) ~~> The amount of time of the Papacies dominance during the "Dark Ages" ~~> ( without the light of the Word of God, because the Papacy suppressed the Bible from the people).

The Truth makes perfect sense, IF you can get over how we have been "trained" to believe this certain way these past 125+ years.
Satan is a genius, the Father of Lies... and the Papacy, IS Anti-Christ, his agent, here in this physical world, and ....


Ephesians 6:12 states: "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

Our God has brought about the Adventist movement, to bring to the world the understanding of the 2300 day ( years ) prophecy,
Daniel 8:13-14, of Jesus moving into the Holy of Holies, in the Heavenly Sanctuary, in 1844, starting His ministry of the Investigative Judgement, as our High Priest. And VERY SOON, probation will close, and He is going to lay aside His priestly robe and put on His Kingly Robe, and return to Earth, bringing His Judgement with Him. Hallelujah, Maranatha ! Amen !!

Which is why we have been given the duty, a commission to warn the world, of God's last warning .. The Three Angels Message ...

Revelation 14:6-12 (KJV)
And I saw another angel fly in the middle of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
~~> echos the Sabbath, as our Creator God's sign of authority.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
( Babylon, the false worship of the RCC ( & dispensationalism = lawlessness) ( Babylon = think of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, making the golden image of himself, for everyone to bow down to and worship, rather than the God of Israel) ( Satan wants to be worshiped, just like Nebuchadnezzar = Babylon)

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast
(the Papacy/ Pope) and his image, (church & state) and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, (The MOTB = Sunday law legislation= the worlds direct rebellion against God's sign of authority, as the Creator God, His 7th Day Sabbath) Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:12

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.
( Sunday worship / NOT keeping the 4th Commandment )

12 Here is the patience of the saints: <~ ( we Christians) here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith OF Jesus. <~KJV

(There is a BIG difference between, "having Faith, IN Jesus" and "have the Faith OF Jesus" ... one is our faith, the other is HIS faith.
Think about THAT !! :-) in relation to Gal 2:20 ... (notice how the RCC Bibles, change the "of" in the KJV to "in" in the eg. NIV, = deception)


The Papacy is convincing the world, that we need a Sunday Law ... for the "common good" ... the US is agreeing. = fulfilling prophecy.
Time is very short ... the MOTB is on the horizon ... we'll need to decide, SOON.. on which side we will stand, and it won't be easy.
Blessings Folks, and Good Night :-)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
We are just Jesus believing Christians, John 14:15, on God's mission for us to proclaim God's last warning to this dying world, just before Christ's SOON Second Advent.

We understand Bible Prophecy, the same way the original Protestant reformers did, which is how they knew they were being persecuted and killed by the "man of lawlessness" ( the Anti-Christ )... 2 Thessalonians 2:3-10

Daniel 7:25 ~>"He will speak words against the Most High, (the pope calling himself "god on Earth") and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, (killing 50+ million, real Christians) ...and shall think to change the times (God's "times"~> "how prophetic times are understood" ) and the law; (removing the 2nd commandment about worshiping idols ~> Exodus 20: 4-5, then splitting the 10th commandment in 2, to make back to 10 commandments, and changing Sabbath to Sunday ) and they (Christians) shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." (1260 days, 42month = day for a year = 1260 years.) ~~> The amount of time of the Papacies dominance during the "Dark Ages" ~~> ( without the light of the Word of God, because the Papacy suppressed the Bible from the people).

The Truth makes perfect sense, IF you can get over how we have been "trained" to believe this certain way these past 125+ years.
Satan is a genius, the Father of Lies... and the Papacy, IS Anti-Christ, his agent, here in this physical world, and ....


Ephesians 6:12 states: "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

Our God has brought about the Adventist movement, to bring to the world the understanding of the 2300 day ( years ) prophecy,
Daniel 8:13-14, of Jesus moving into the Holy of Holies, in the Heavenly Sanctuary, in 1844, starting His ministry of the Investigative Judgement, as our High Priest. And VERY SOON, probation will close, and He is going to lay aside His priestly robe and put on His Kingly Robe, and return to Earth, bringing His Judgement with Him. Hallelujah, Maranatha ! Amen !!

Which is why we have been given the duty, a commission to warn the world, of God's last warning .. The Three Angels Message ...

Revelation 14:6-12 (KJV)
And I saw another angel fly in the middle of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. ~~> echos the Sabbath, as our Creator God's sign of authority.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. ( Babylon, the false worship of the RCC ( & dispensationalism = lawlessness) ( Babylon = think of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, making the golden image of himself, for everyone to bow down to and worship, rather than the God of Israel) ( Satan wants to be worshiped, just like Nebuchadnezzar = Babylon)

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast (the Papacy/ Pope) and his image, (church & state) and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, (The MOTB = Sunday law legislation= the worlds direct rebellion against God's sign of authority, as the Creator God, His 7th Day Sabbath) Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:12

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name. ( Sunday worship / NOT keeping the 4th Commandment )

12 Here is the patience of the saints: <~ ( we Christians) here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith OF Jesus. <~KJV

(There is a BIG difference between, "having Faith, IN Jesus" and "have the Faith OF Jesus" ... one is our faith, the other is HIS faith.
Think about THAT !! :) in relation to Gal 2:20 ... (notice how the RCC Bibles, change the "of" in the KJV to "in" in the eg. NIV, = deception)


The Papacy is convincing the world, that we need a Sunday Law ... for the "common good" ... the US is agreeing. = fulfilling prophecy.
Time is very short ... the MOTB is on the horizon ... we'll need to decide, SOON.. on which side we will stand, and it won't be easy.
Blessings Folks, and Good Night :)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
These are genuine concerns brother that do indeed strike the very core of the heart,

I just looked at the kjv version and the Catholic version of the Galatians 220




Galatians 2:20 (NABRE/RSVCE) states: "
I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself up for me


Galatians 2:20

King James Version



20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


I understand the difference of and in.

Original translation Latin Vulgate of

Nova vulgata of rome of latest current addition OF


New American bible nabre Rome authorised by rome IN widely used globally to

New revised standard version nrsv-ce Rome authorised in globally used to

Csb-ce north America Rome authorised in globally used to
 
Gotta love this RCC versus Protestant argument. You leave out the entire Orthodox traditions from Eastern Europe, the Coptic church from Egypt, and other Christian traditions as if they do not exist. You also seek to ignore that the Protestant tradition is not uniform as it includes such groups as the Anabaptist traditions and the Anglicans. Meanwhile the Lutherans spelled out in their Book of Concord where they disagreed with the RCC, where they were not certain if they differed but stated their position and then agreed on all other points. Further, the nice, united mainline Protestants attacked both the RCC and the Anabaptist Protestants, when the Lutherans were not attacking the Calvinists.
 
Gotta love this RCC versus Protestant argument. You leave out the entire Orthodox traditions from Eastern Europe, the Coptic church from Egypt, and other Christian traditions as if they do not exist. You also seek to ignore that the Protestant tradition is not uniform as it includes such groups as the Anabaptist traditions and the Anglicans. Meanwhile the Lutherans spelled out in their Book of Concord where they disagreed with the RCC, where they were not certain if they differed but stated their position and then agreed on all other points. Further, the nice, united mainline Protestants attacked both the RCC and the Anabaptist Protestants, when the Lutherans were not attacking the Calvinists.
well the debate can leave all kinds out, but the debate is an object, the person is subject tho, sadly, whether he realises it or not, but what I mainly see here in this forum is severe Catholic objections, everyday in the hundreds in many threads

And I mean ott objections, ive recently been studying Catholics objection to free will and faith alone. From genuine professing catholics

Guess what buddy all the hate fueled objection raised in the 36000 posts in the can we exercise free will thread are all identical to extreme Catholic belief from the ranting to the demonizing of people , and I'm saying all of them like many many, like hundreds of different ideas are the same as genuine professing catholics

The best part is buddy all those many people in that thread are all telling us there not Catholic.
 
I am not that well versed in RCC theology, I know some but am not an expert by many means. And I tend to differ with them just as I do with many Protestants. I dislike using terminology that made sense 1500+ years ago and is no longer fully understood instead of trying to update the terms into things we really understand today.

One example would be that Plato and Aristotle made great arguments for the existence of God, but they are largely ignored because of the language used. But they can be easily updated using more modern language and knowledge and are suddenly very insightful to many people. But heaven forbid that we update the language of the Church to make it more understandable.