Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

FAITH: firm belief in something for which there is NO PROOF.

With God? And, you are being filled with the Spirit (not just imagining you are).
You have proof.

Seeing is not believing when it comes to faith.

We have been given a new set of "instincts" from God.
Like birds just knowing to fly south for the winter.

Faith is a part of having a normal rapport with God.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

opposites cannot both be true about the same idea in the same sense. Sounds to me like you have no faith in the words of Jesus being true.

i agree they both can’t be true. And neither can be physically proven. And you apparently didn’t read my entire post where I said I will walk by faith. I have faith that Jesus is truth. I’m just saying that Muslims have faith that Allah is truth. They walk by faith just as we walk by faith.

 

[Genez]

You should probably take that up with Websters or Oxford.

• 1a: allegiance to duty or a person :LOYALTY//lost faith in the company's president
  b(1): fidelity to one's promises//The higher taxes were a breachof faith with the party's base … — Alexander Downer
  (2): sincerity of intentions//acted in good/bad faith
• 2a(1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God //found faith at an early age
  (2): belief in the traditional doctrinesof a religion//their faith in the Scriptures
  b(1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof//They had faith that everything would work out.
  (2): complete trust//have faith in the process
• 3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction
  especially : a system of religious beliefs :RELIGION//people of all faiths//the Christian/Jewish/Muslim faith//At its core, this faith is about how to love your neighbor.

Stop with the secular stuff, please? ...

Faith is having a normal spiritual response to God by means of having developed an accurate understanding of God's Word.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

With God? And, you are being filled with the Spirit (not just imagining you are).
You have proof.

Seeing is not believing when it comes to faith.

We have been given a new set of "instincts" from God.
Like birds just knowing to fly south for the winter.

Faith is a part of having a normal rapport with God.

Ok

 

[Blue155]

I could just as easily turn that around and say “If you or anyone here is able to physically prove that you are who you really say you are, then please do. If you or anyone here is able to physically prove that George Washington was really the first president, or that John Wilkes Booth assassinated Abraham Lincoln, then please do. Until that is physically proven, I will walk by my faith that George Washington was really the first president, and that John Wilkes Booty really assassinated Abraham Lincoln.”

One does not need physical proof to know something is true or that something happened. If that was the case, many cases and historical writings would be thrown out.

Almost everything you believe in life isn’t based on physical evidence: You believe your great-grandparents got married—but you weren’t there. You believe in logic—but it’s not physical. You trust that someone loves you—but you can’t measure it in a test tube. You believe historical events like Ghandi’s assassination or Lincoln’s speeches—based on documents and testimony. We believe these things because of reasonable, human evidence.

If you say we have physical evidence of John Wilkes booth assassinating Lincoln, then how do you know that’s really the evidence? How do you know it wasn’t tampered, doctored, etc? Same for saying any other physical evidence about any historical event? Do you trust obituaries without tracking down the coroner? Do you trust historical writings without ever having physical evidence? Do you trust medical writings that have been confirmed to be true without physical evidence? Does juries have to have physical evidence for something to be true?

[QUOTE="Just_A__Follower, post: 5654884, member: 344912" I’m just saying that Muslims have faith that Allah is truth. They walk by faith just as we walk by faith.[/QUOTE]
No, they don’t. You cannot compare the Quran or Islam to the Bible and Christianity, unless you are wanting to say Islam and the Quran have the same evidentiary claims.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Stop with the secular stuff, please? ...

Faith is having a normal spiritual response to God by means of having developed an accurate understanding of God's Word.

Maybe that’s the problem. You’re using a different definition of the word than the rest of the world. We should probably try to get that changed. If we can’t agree on the dictionary definition of words then every word you write means absolutely nothing.

 

[BillyBob]

you must first get them to doubt their own reality.

Did God really say?..............

 

[Just_A__Follower]

I could just as easily turn that around and say “If you or anyone here is able to physically prove that you are who you really say you are, then please do. If you or anyone here is able to physically prove that George Washington was really the first president, or that John Wilkes Booth assassinated Abraham Lincoln, then please do. Until that is physically proven, I will walk by my faith that George Washington was really the first president, and that John Wilkes Booty really assassinated Abraham Lincoln.”

One does not need physical proof to know something is true or that something happened. If that was the case, many cases and historical writings would be thrown out.

Almost everything you believe in life isn’t based on physical evidence: You believe your great-grandparents got married—but you weren’t there. You believe in logic—but it’s not physical. You trust that someone loves you—but you can’t measure it in a test tube. You believe historical events like Ghandi’s assassination or Lincoln’s speeches—based on documents and testimony. We believe these things because of reasonable, human evidence.

If you say we have physical evidence of John Wilkes booth assassinating Lincoln, then how do you know that’s really the evidence? How do you know it wasn’t tampered, doctored, etc? Same for saying any other physical evidence about any historical event? Do you trust obituaries without tracking down the coroner? Do you trust historical writings without ever having physical evidence? Do you trust medical writings that have been confirmed to be true without physical evidence? Does juries have to have physical evidence for something to be true?

[QUOTE="Just_A__Follower, post: 5654884, member: 344912" I’m just saying that Muslims have faith that Allah is truth. They walk by faith just as we walk by faith.

Exactly, which is why I walk by faith until things are proven. I have faith that a chair will hold me. After I sit in it and it doesn’t break, that proves my faith to be true.

 

[Blue155]

Exactly, which is why I walk by faith until things are proven. I have faith that a chair will hold me. After I sit in it and it doesn’t break, that proves my faith to be true.

In other words, you cannot believe in anything historically. By your standard, you can’t believe in anything historical. You can’t believe Lincoln was assassinated, that George Washington gave speeches, that the Revolutionary War happened—because you weren’t there to physically test it. Everything we know about history relies on evidence, documentation, eyewitness testimony, and corroboration, not immediate physical proof. Faith in history isn’t blind; it’s rational trust based on evidence. The same applies to Jesus and the Gospel accounts—they come with verifiable, historical evidence that can be examined.

 

[BillyBob]

You must think we are programmable robots to do God's will?

God first looks at all possible future outcomes that a man could choose to make...
Then, out of all of the many possible things that could happen?
God then decrees by his selection, what aspects he knows of a man's choices, are to be manifested in time.

God does not make something happen by controlling a person's thought as how something is to be done in his decree.

Rather, by decreeing something he takes what he knows how a person would choose in a situation, and using that in causing the fulfillment of His plan for history.

God pieces together what he foreknew men would want to do, to form into a continuum of action to reach God's desired outcome.

.......

Why would God need to do anything based on foreknowledge of men when He can just say:
Gen 1:3 “Let there be light”; and there was light. You must be joking to think that He looks to man in order to plan His action. . .

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Did God really say?..............

Still works today. Sometimes you have to use satan’s words against him.

 

[Blue155]

“Exactly, which is why I walk by faith until things are proven. I have faith that a chair will hold me. After I sit in it and it doesn’t break, that proves my faith to be true.”

Until things are proven…which means you have no faith until it’s physically proven by your own standards, which means you have no faith in Jesus, since you have no immediate physical proof that you can physically see for yourself. Thus, by your own standard of faith, just like you have no true faith that a chair holds you and it doesn’t break until you sit it in, you have no true faith that Jesus is really who He says He is, until you are able to physically see Him, but how do you know you wouldn’t be even skeptical of that and say you were hallucinating? You see, this the problem with your definition of faith. At this very moment, by your own standard, your faith in Jesus isn’t true.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

In other words, you cannot believe in anything historically. By your standard, you can’t believe in anything historical. You can’t believe Lincoln was assassinated, that George Washington gave speeches, that the Revolutionary War happened—because you weren’t there to physically test it. Everything we know about history relies on evidence, documentation, eyewitness testimony, and corroboration, not immediate physical proof. Faith in history isn’t blind; it’s rational trust based on evidence. The same applies to Jesus and the Gospel accounts—they come with verifiable, historical evidence that can be examined.

Yes I believe all of that. That’s what faith is. Believing in something that can’t be proven or not seen as in Heb 11-1. I believe the gospel accounts. Can they be 100% physically proven to be true? Yes or no

 

[Blue155]

Yes I believe all of that. That’s what faith is. Believing in something that can’t be proven or not seen as in Heb 11-1. I believe the gospel accounts. Can they be 100% physically proven to be true? Yes or no

What makes you think Hebrews 11:1 was referring to the resurrection, when there were over 500 that saw the resurrected Jesus? And your standard of wanting the gospels to be true physically…how consistent are you on all historical events with your standard? You also are limiting evidence as one thing.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

“Exactly, which is why I walk by faith until things are proven. I have faith that a chair will hold me. After I sit in it and it doesn’t break, that proves my faith to be true.”

Until things are proven…which means you have no faith until it’s physically proven by your own standards, which means you have no faith in Jesus, since you have no immediate physical proof that you can physically see for yourself. Thus, by your own standard of faith, just like you have no true faith that a chair holds you and it doesn’t break until you sit it in, you have no true faith that Jesus is really who He says He is, until you are able to physically see Him, but how do you know you wouldn’t be even skeptical of that and say you were hallucinating? You see, this the problem with your definition of faith. At this very moment, by your own standard, your faith in Jesus isn’t true.

I see why y’all debate has gone on sooooo long. Half the people here don’t bother reading responses. FOR THE FOURTH TIME MY FAITH IS IN CHRIST WHO DIED ON THE CROSS, WAS BURIED, AND 3 DAYS LATER ROSE FROM THE TOMB. I have faith that the chair will hold me or else I wouldn’t sit not sit in it. I have faith that the incoming drivers won’t hit me or else I wouldn’t drive. And I didn’t define the word faith in the English language. That was done by a Christian man by the name of Noah Webster. Great guy you should read about him.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

What makes you think Hebrews 11:1 was referring to the resurrection, when there were over 500 that saw the resurrected Jesus? And your standard of wanting the gospels to be true physically…how consistent are you on all historical events with your standard? You also are limiting evidence as one thing.

Ok blue. Have a good night. Y’all go ahead and switch back to the free will debate. And my apologies to the OP for sidetracking the thread. Love y’all.

 

[cv5]

FAITH: firm belief in something for which there is NO PROOF.

Ridiculous

 

[Blue155]

MY FAITH IS IN CHRIST WHO DIED ON THE CROSS, WAS BURIED, AND 3 DAYS LATER ROSE FROM THE TOMB. I have faith that the chair will hold me or else I wouldn’t sit not sit in it. I have faith that the incoming drivers won’t hit me or else I wouldn’t drive

But you don’t know if your faith (according to your standard) is true until you have immediate physical proof. Notice when you said “I have faith that a chair will hold me. After I sit in it and it doesn’t break, that proves my faith to be true.”

Notice how you say “AFTER [CAPS for emphasis] I sit in it and it doesn’t break, that proves my faith to be TRUE.”

But by that standard, you don’t know if your faith in Christ is true until “AFTER you see Him and He doesn’t prove to be a hallucination, that proves your faith to be TRUE.”

So, you say you have faith in Jesus, but by your standard, only until you physically see Him and He’s physically proved Himself to you that He resurrected, that proves your faith to be true…which means at this moment…since He has not physically appeared to you that He resurrected, that your faith is not true. Just like you don’t have true faith in a chair until after you sit in it and it doesn’t break. True faith is not waiting or seeing after..or whether a chair won’t break when you sit in it, but whether you sit in it at all. Your faith is a waiting faith to see if it’s true.

 

[Blue155]

Ridiculous

He sounds like an agnostic or skeptic.

 

[Genez]

Maybe that’s the problem. You’re using a different definition of the word than the rest of the world. We should probably try to get that changed. If we can’t agree on the dictionary definition of words then every word you write means absolutely nothing.

OK... go to the world for your answers if that is what you desire.