Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

Bias exactly the problem. Everyone has their own reality. To prove something to someone or win a debate, you must first get them to doubt their own reality. Trying to establish a new reality on top of the existing won’t work since two truths can’t exist together. First you must cause doubt in their current reality. Once the current reality is broken a new one can be established. Their faith in the new reality can now begin to grow are long as it’s not taken away by the old as in the parable of the sower. The current crop has to be removed and the ground tilled before the new crop can be planted.

And Mere Christianity is definitely a book that I would recommend for all that are doubting their current reality.

There's no such animal in this universe as multiple truths, since all truth is God's Truth.

 

[Rufus]

Someday you may find the Holy Spirit becoming your close friend.
He guides us into all Truth.

Human preference never establishes truth.
Human preference only establishes substitutes for truth when truth is not being found.

.....

I thought only Piled High and Dry preachers or teachers can do that?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I just wonder if this message doesn't burn in a persons heart will they still yield themselves ?

According to his word and the witnesses accounts of his true disciples they said his word burned in there hearts, I do wonder if his will caused that to happen ?

for the born again believers ...

1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.


for the natural man ...

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me

The Holy Spirit works within faithful believers who hold forth the truth of Scripture testify of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Will His "word burn in there hearts" if the believer does not hold forth the truth of Scripture?

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Like I said we have faith that it is true just as they all have faith that their beliefs are true. All of humanity walks by faith no matter their beliefs.

agree ... the question to be asked is not "do you have faith?"

the question to be asked is "in Whom do you place your faith?"

When faith is placed in a lie ... no good.

When faith is placed in truth ... God brings increase.

1 Corinthians 3:6-15

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

.

 

[Blue155]

Will His "word burn in there hearts" if the believer does not hold forth the truth of Scripture?

No, which leads some to believe “they were never saved to begin with”

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Plus they were never destined to believe the Gospel in the first place. Only those who have been given to Christ in eternity will ever believe the gospel. And God did not give the entire ungodly world to the Son.

The riches of the Lord Jesus Christ are unsearchable ... there is no end ... to Him or His riches.

You limit the exceeding riches of His grace to your subset of humanity ... of which, interestingly, you include yourself and exclude those you refer to as "FWers" or "freewillers" ...

The offering/sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ is more than sufficient to cover the sins of the whole world ... all descendants of Adam ...

Romans 1:16-19

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness when truth is revealed to them are the ones suffer the consequence of their actions.

Those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness when truth is revealed to them are the ones who receive the blessing ... the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation ... God's power is not limited to your understanding of who is included in "the world" or "whosoever" ...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

No, which leads some to believe “they were never saved to begin with”

right? ... some claim that "FWers" or "freewillers" cannot grasp truth ... smh

well, when truth is spoken those pesky "FWers" or "freewillers" not only grasp the truth ... but truth is held very dear to their hearts.

And I'm not saying that "FWers" or "freewillers" are the only ones who speak/understand truth ... those who are not "FWers" or "freewillers" have revealed truth ...

tbh, based upon the definitions of "FWer / freewiller" I've seen, no one who has posted in this thread is a "FWer / freewiller" ... just sayin'

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[Genez]

Proving once again that God's perfect, holy will is ALWAYS DONE! How often have I stated that what God has decreed in eternity will come to past in time and space because man's will (lost and elect alike) and Jesus' are always in sync with God's.

You must think we are programmable robots to do God's will?

God first looks at all possible future outcomes that a man could choose to make...
Then, out of all of the many possible things that could happen?
God then decrees by his selection, what aspects he knows of a man's choices, are to be manifested in time.

God does not make something happen by controlling a person's thought as how something is to be done in his decree.

Rather, by decreeing something he takes what he knows how a person would choose in a situation, and using that in causing the fulfillment of His plan for history.

God pieces together what he foreknew men would want to do, to form into a continuum of action to reach God's desired outcome.

.......

 

[cv5]

You must think we are programmable robots to do God's will?

God first looks at all possible future outcomes that a man could choose to make...
Then, out of all of the many possible things that could happen?
God then decrees by his selection, what aspects he knows of a man's choices, are to be manifested in time.

God does not make something happen by controlling a person's thought as how something is to be done in his decree.

Rather, by decreeing something he takes what he knows how a person would choose in a situation, and using that in causing the fulfillment of His plan for history.

God pieces together what he foreknew men would want to do, to form into a continuum of action to reach God's desired outcome.

.......

To his credit, Thieme broke ranks from the general staff at Dallas Theological Seminary, most of whom were either "moderate" Calvinists (whatever that is supposed to mean) thru the spectrum to full metal jacket hard core Calvinists.

He basically rejects Reformed thought outright, although some trite Calvinistic terms do creep in now and again.

 

[cv5]

You must think we are programmable robots to do God's will?

God first looks at all possible future outcomes that a man could choose to make...
Then, out of all of the many possible things that could happen?
God then decrees by his selection, what aspects he knows of a man's choices, are to be manifested in time.

God does not make something happen by controlling a person's thought as how something is to be done in his decree.

Rather, by decreeing something he takes what he knows how a person would choose in a situation, and using that in causing the fulfillment of His plan for history.

God pieces together what he foreknew men would want to do, to form into a continuum of action to reach God's desired outcome.

.......

Add to that:
God provides the solution to every failure or mishap or crisis for all those who believe on Him.
Thereby maintaining the salvation mandate.

 

[Genez]

To his credit, Thieme broke ranks from the general staff at Dallas Theological Seminary, most of whom were either "moderate" Calvinists (whatever that is supposed to mean) thru the spectrum to full metal jacket hard core Calvinists.

He basically rejects Reformed thought outright, although some trite Calvinistic terms do creep in now and again.

Calvinists when forming some of their doctrines did not know exactly what to do with what they could know.
But, they needed an answer rather quickly to take their stand against the Roman Catholic Church.

So, they concocted what they had, which in some respect mirrors the same kind of rigid thinking of the RCC.
And then ran with it, leaving the RCC too stupid to be able to refute what they declared to be their position.

Though confoundingly erroneous?
It gave Calvinists freedom from the RCC's control.

Confoundingly erroneous... Like how the RCC concocted the concept of the Immaculate Conception to gain control over the typical peasant's mentality. No one at that time had enough doctrinal understanding to be able to dare be questioning it. Thus, establishing "control" through double-talk doctrine.

........

 

[Genez]

I thought only Piled High and Dry preachers or teachers can do that?

Many will think they are the real deal...
Until this takes place.

​

For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. ​

​

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, ​

their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. ​

​

It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. ​

​

If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. ​

If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—​

Even though only as one escaping through the flames." 1 Cor 3:11-15​

​

.......

​

 

[Genez]

Add to that:
God provides the solution to every failure or mishap or crisis for all those who believe on Him.
Thereby maintaining the salvation mandate.

God has us in his witness protection plan.

Angels are watching us in the courtroom of life on earth.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

There's no such animal in this universe as multiple truths, since all truth is God's Truth.

Agreed. We have faith our God is truth and others have faith their god is truth. It’s our faith vs their faith.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Well you keep using circular reasoning to prove a point, and making stuff up about how things of a spiritual matter can't be proved, plus you choose to see a genuine important debate concerning faith as argumentive, all this points towards making stuff look meaningless.

FAITH: firm belief in something for which there is NO PROOF.

 

[Genez]

FAITH: firm belief in something for which there is NO PROOF.

It does not have to be a firm belief. It can be even matter of fact.
What is "is."

 

[Blue155]

FAITH: firm belief in something for which there is NO PROOF.

Biblical faith isn’t blind.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

It does not have to be a firm belief. It can be even matter of fact.
What is "is."

You should probably take that up with Websters or Oxford.

• 1a: allegiance to duty or a person :LOYALTY//lost faith in the company's president
  b(1): fidelity to one's promises//The higher taxes were a breachof faith with the party's base … — Alexander Downer
  (2): sincerity of intentions//acted in good/bad faith
• 2a(1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God //found faith at an early age
  (2): belief in the traditional doctrinesof a religion//their faith in the Scriptures
  b(1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof//They had faith that everything would work out.
  (2): complete trust//have faith in the process
• 3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction
  especially : a system of religious beliefs :RELIGION//people of all faiths//the Christian/Jewish/Muslim faith//At its core, this faith is about how to love your neighbor.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Biblical faith isn’t blind.

A Muslim would say taking the Quran as truth isn’t blind faith. If you or anyone here is able to physically prove Jesus is God then please do. Until that is physically proven I will walk by my faith in Christ with the hope that one day that which I have faith in will be physically proven.

 

[Blue155]

A Muslim would say taking the Quran as truth isn’t blind faith. If you or anyone here is able to physically prove Jesus is God then please do. Until that is physically proven I will walk by my faith in Christ with the hope that one day that which I have faith in will be physically proven.

opposites cannot both be true about the same idea in the same sense. Sounds to me like you have no faith in the words of Jesus being true.