The BIG Question not asked, concerning Genesis 6:1-6?

[Jordon]

The sons of Seth did not abide there. Did they?

the full reality here is your leaning on your own understanding. and by the looks of it your either being spiritually tormented or your really confused. i cant see you have any grounds to fully lean on your own understanding, especially since God can only give life to the spirit.

And really well since God knows the future, your really saying God cast down angels from heaven and gave them powers to take up human physical form and left them with them powers, beggars belief your understandings, your discussion reminds of a person my mum dealt with, a person who justified having a sex change for your understandings, she then killed herself.

 

[Edward429451]

It simply means a place to inhabit. Josephus used the word in Against Apion, Book 1, 20.7

"He then marched away to Borsippus, to besiege Nabonnedus; but as Nabonnedus did not sustain the siege, but delivered himself into his hands, he was at first kindly used by Cyrus, who gave him Carmania, as a place for him to inhabit in, but sent him out of Babylonia. Accordingly Nabonnedus spent the rest of his time in that country, and there died."

God is a tripartite being and man was created in the very image and likeness of God, I am a soul. I have a spirit. I live in a body. That's why Jesus told us to not look on the appearance of someone but look inside.

I can tell that you don't use a concordance and don't know Hebrew or Greek. But if you did use one such as

https://www.blueletterbible.org/ I dont know the languages but I do use the concordance and if you used it it would teach you little things about the language that would bring more clarity to your understanding. This is one of those cases brother. WADR you're missing something important here.

Paul talks about it.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

God is a tripartite being and man was created in the very image and likeness of God, I am a soul. I have a spirit. I live in a body. That's why Jesus told us to not look on the appearance of someone but look inside.

I can tell that you don't use a concordance and don't know Hebrew or Greek. But if you did use one such as

https://www.blueletterbible.org/ I dont know the languages but I do use the concordance and if you used it it would teach you little things about the language that would bring more clarity to your understanding. This is one of those cases brother. WADR you're missing something important here.

Paul talks about it.

I do use a concordance and lexicons. The word in question means habitation. It is used in 2 Maccabees 11:2 and 3 Maccabees 2:15. In the first case it means a city, and in the 2nd it means the highest heaven. In neither case does it mean a body.

Very soon after this, Lysias, the king’s guardian and kinsman, who was in charge of the government, being vexed at what had happened, gathered about eighty thousand infantry and all his cavalry and came against the Jews. He intended to make the city a home for Greeks, 2 Maccabees 11:1–2.​

​

For your dwelling is the heaven of heavens, unapproachable by human beings. 3 Maccabees. 2:15​

οἰκητήριον
This is used in Gk. for “dwelling-place,” “abode”1 (Democr., 171, Diels, I, 416; Eur. Or., 1114; Ps.-Aristot. Mund., 393a, 4; Fr., 482; Strabo, 12, 5, 3; Plut. Pomp., 28; P. Oxy., II, 281, 11; BGU, IV, 1167, 33; P. Tur., II, 3, 23; inscr. from a shrine of Isis (Ἰσιδεῖον): σὺν τοῖς περὶ αὐτὸ κατῳκοδομημένοις οἰκητηρίοις, Ceb. Tab., 17; 2 Macc. 11:2. In En. 27:2 it is used for the place of punishment of the eternally accursed: ὧδε ἐπισυναχθήσονται, καὶ ὧδε ἔσται τὸ οἰκητήριον. In Jd. 6: ἀγγέλους τε τοὺς μὴ τηρήσαντας τὴν ἑαυτῶν ἀρχὴν ἀλλὰ ἀπολιπόντας τὸ ἴδιον οἰκητήριον εἰς κρίσιν … τετήρηκεν. Cf. the similar ideas in En. 12:4: εἶπε τοῖς ἐγρηγόροις τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, οἵτινες ἀπολιπόντες τὸν οὐρανὸν τὸν ὑψηλὸν, τὸ ἁγίασμα τῆς στάσεως τοῦ αἰῶνος …, the watchers have left the high heaven, the holy eternal city; 15:3: διὰ τί ἀπελίπετε τὸν οὐρανὸν τὸν ὑψηλὸν τὸν ἅγιον τοῦ αἰῶνος; 15:7: καὶ διὰ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐποίησα ἐν ὑμῖν θηλείας· τὰ πνεύματα τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ ἡ κατοίκησις αὐτῶν. οἰκητήριον is thus used esp. for the seat of the angels in heaven.

We find the word in an anthropological context in 2 C. 5:2: … στενάζομεν τὸ οἰκητήριον ἡμῶν τὸ ἐξ οὐρανοῦ ἐπενδύσασθαι ἐπιποθοῦντες. οἰκητήριον ἐξ οὐρανοῦ is thus used here in development of the metaphor of the building (οἰκοδομὴ ἐκ θεοῦ, v. 1). We are obviously dealing with an older Gnostic Persian view in which the human body is compared with a building or dwelling-place.

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

 

[Mem]

How do we know we have all antecedents in their proper order with their pronouns? What supposition has to be adopted that Genesis 6:4 cannot be interpretated that 'sons of God' aren't "the same" as the "Nephilim" and 'the same' that became the 'mighty men of old' rather than the children born to them?

 

[PennEd]

CHAPTER X.
1. Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, and said to him: 2. '〈Go to Noah〉 and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. 3. And now instruct him that he may escape and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.' 4. And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl, and cast him therein. 5. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. 6. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. 8. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azâzêl: to him ascribe all sin.' 9. And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle: for length of days shall they not have. 10. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and that each one of them will live five hundred years.' 11. And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjâzâ and

p. 38

his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. 12. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated. 13. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: 〈and〉 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations. 15. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: ⌈and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth⌉ shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.

17 And then shall all the righteous escape,
And shall live till they beget thousands of children,
And all the days of their youth and their old age
Shall they complete in peace.

18 And then shall the whole earth be tilled in righteousness, and shall all be planted with trees and be full of blessing. 19. And all desirable trees shall be planted on it, and they shall plant vines on it: and the vine which they plant thereon shall yield wine in abundance, and as for all the seed which is sown thereon each measure (of it) shall bear a thousand, and each measure of olives shall yield ten presses of oil. 20. And cleanse thou the earth from all oppression, and from all unrighteousness, and from all sin, and from all godlessness: and all the uncleanness that is wrought upon the earth destroy from off the earth. 21. ⌈And all the children of men shall become righteous⌉, and all nations shall

p. 39

offer adoration and shall praise Me, and all shall worship Me. And the earth shall be cleansed from all defilement, and from all sin, and from all punishment, and from all torment, and I will never again send (them) upon it from generation to generation and for ever.

 

[Jordon]

CHAPTER X.
1. Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, and said to him: 2. '〈Go to Noah〉 and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. 3. And now instruct him that he may escape and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.' 4. And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl, and cast him therein. 5. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. 6. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. 8. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azâzêl: to him ascribe all sin.' 9. And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle: for length of days shall they not have. 10. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and that each one of them will live five hundred years.' 11. And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjâzâ and

p. 38

his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. 12. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated. 13. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: 〈and〉 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations. 15. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: ⌈and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth⌉ shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.

17 And then shall all the righteous escape,
And shall live till they beget thousands of children,
And all the days of their youth and their old age
Shall they complete in peace.

18 And then shall the whole earth be tilled in righteousness, and shall all be planted with trees and be full of blessing. 19. And all desirable trees shall be planted on it, and they shall plant vines on it: and the vine which they plant thereon shall yield wine in abundance, and as for all the seed which is sown thereon each measure (of it) shall bear a thousand, and each measure of olives shall yield ten presses of oil. 20. And cleanse thou the earth from all oppression, and from all unrighteousness, and from all sin, and from all godlessness: and all the uncleanness that is wrought upon the earth destroy from off the earth. 21. ⌈And all the children of men shall become righteous⌉, and all nations shall

p. 39

offer adoration and shall praise Me, and all shall worship Me. And the earth shall be cleansed from all defilement, and from all sin, and from all punishment, and from all torment, and I will never again send (them) upon it from generation to generation and for ever.

this is probably the reason why the book of Enoch is not included in bible,

Because it gives excuse for mankind to blame the angels for everything and carry on in sin, not to mention calling sin not evil, but thats just on of them.

Plus from many biblical scholars the fall of angels could happened when Jesus was born, at the time of Moses or in the garden of eden,

mankind is held responsible for there fallen nature, so I can see why this book is not included in the Bible now thanks

 

[sawdust]

No it doesn't.

That's the whole point in referencing the other usage of the word "oiketerion".
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our [b]habitation which is from heaven,

The oiketerion is FROM Heaven. It is NOT Heaven.
If the Jude wanted to say "Heaven" he would have just said "Heaven"

I had already pointed out the Jude and Corinthian passage to her but she was unimpressed.

It is quite clear imo that Jude is saying the angels abandoned their original spiritual bodies and swapped it for ones of flesh and Gen 6 tells us why, specifically for the purpose of sexual conduct with the "beautiful women".

 

[sawdust]

How do we know we have all antecedents in their proper order with their pronouns? What supposition has to be adopted that Genesis 6:4 cannot be interpretated that 'sons of God' aren't "the same" as the "Nephilim" and 'the same' that became the 'mighty men of old' rather than the children born to them?

Just to clarify ... you are suggesting that the sons of God, the Nephilim and the giants (men of renown) are all the same creatures just different titles?

 

[sawdust]

It simply means a place to inhabit. Josephus used the word in Against Apion, Book 1, 20.7

"He then marched away to Borsippus, to besiege Nabonnedus; but as Nabonnedus did not sustain the siege, but delivered himself into his hands, he was at first kindly used by Cyrus, who gave him Carmania, as a place for him to inhabit in, but sent him out of Babylonia. Accordingly Nabonnedus spent the rest of his time in that country, and there died."

And Corinthians links that place of habitation to their bodies, not heaven. If it was referring to heaven, the word should be all over the place as the Lord God dwells in heaven.

Josephus didn't write scripture. We are to compare scripture with scripture, not Josephus.

 

[sawdust]

And I showed you that the word means habitation, not body. Heaven is the rightful habitation of angels.

And we showed you in the Corinthian passage it meant bodies.

 

[sawdust]

Your brain is not working well this morning. Think about what you're saying. Use of language and personal beliefs are not the same thing.

Maybe you should try that.

Luke 6:45
A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It is quite clear imo that Jude is saying the angels abandoned their original spiritual bodies and swapped it for ones of flesh and Gen 6 tells us why, specifically for the purpose of sexual conduct with the "beautiful women".

It makes me laugh that people can think the beauty that angels were routinely exposed to in heaven can compare to animals, basically, made out of dirt.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

And we showed you in the Corinthian passage it meant bodies.

Read post 143. Body is a metaphorical exception.

 

[sawdust]

Jude doesn't say that. We've discussed this before

Jude likens the sexual immorality and perversion of Sodom and Gomorrah to the angels who left their proper abode.

Jude 6-7a
6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.

So if the angels of Gen.6 did not give themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion then Jude is very much mistaken.

 

[sawdust]

It makes me laugh that people can think the beauty that angels were routinely exposed to in heaven can compare to animals, basically, made out of dirt.

Well a merry heart does good like a medicine, so laugh away.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Jude likens the sexual immorality and perversion of Sodom and Gomorrah to the angels who left their proper abode.

Jude 6-7a
6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.

So if the angels of Gen.6 did not give themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion then Jude is very much mistaken.

Post 124 dispels that wrong interpretation

 

[sawdust]

Read post 143. Body is a metaphorical exception.

Why do you have to keep resorting to works that are not scripture? Is it because you don't won't to compare it to the only other scripture where the word is used that clearly defines "habitation" as a body?

Not a good look rejecting scripture.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Why do you have to keep resorting to works that are not scripture? Is it because you don't won't to compare it to the only other scripture where the word is used that clearly defines "habitation" as a body?

Not a good look rejecting scripture.

Maccabees is scripture IMO

 

[sawdust]

Maccabees is scripture IMO

Then I think that tells us everything we need to know.

Have a nice day.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Then I think that tells us everything we need to know.

Have a nice day.

Who is "we" you are speaking for?