Yes good point, agree, but I do feel there is a strong emotional investment.
Emotions cloud objectivity I think is my main point.
Israel and the present conflict
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Yes good point, agree, but I do feel there is a strong emotional investment.
Emotions cloud objectivity I think is my main point.
I have also noticed "Palestine was never a nation' gets repeated ad nauseam.
I am not disappointed. I have been there with the poster as have many others, same ole, same ole for many years.
It is just people, just a general "people," do not realize that a mind which has been captured by a narrative/propaganda/basically lies, is not the same as a rational, objective discerning mind.
The fact that is, it is not a mind/knowledge/brain thing, but purely emotional, that is how propaganda works and that is why it is very hard to get these people to be objective and use critical thinking skills, they are not really employing "thinking" they are defending their emotional bond to an idea or belief.
They are unable to separate the two.
It is sometimes hard to see this when someone like you, who is employing logic and reason, we tend to naturally think the other is as well. It took me a while to realize this, but until that emotional attachment can be dropped by the other person, the effort is futile.
Anyway I have appreciated you posts, so from that perspective it has been good.
It is just good to know that not everyone has drunk the Kool Aid.
Thanks, but I also see that you are wiser in this matter than I am.
They say that there are three sides to every argument, ie mine yours and the truth.
if that is the case I would hate for the "winner" to be either me or you.
I also think the exchange in this thread would have been less interesting without the input of those that defend Judaism.
If I was not already marked as "the opposition" I would want to help them do a better job of debating.
The use of bold print for example, gives an appearance of being puffed up.
In has a psychological effect on the readers so they feel they are being shouted at by a person who has lost emotional control.
I have been struggling with the Idea that those who build their Christianity on the foundation of Apostate Judaism are not my spiritual brothers and sisters.
My faith is based on a Jewish foundation, but the Jewishness of it is defined by Jesus, not by the rebels who rejected Him (Ron 2:28-29).
I am well aware that this is not a simple matter and that people are brought into Christs kingdom with all sorts of ailments, as am I. I will restrain myself from being judgemental.
There are however some things that happened in the NT early church that we should be warned by.
2 Corinthians 11:3-4 warns of false preachers who taught the congregation of "another Jesus".
I have also been often told by Zionists that the coming messiah of Rabbinic Judaism is Jesus Christ. Another Jesus?
In Acts 15 we read about false teachers constraining Christian men to be circumcised and accept apostate Judaism as their foundation. So we can see that it has all happened before.
Judgement belongs to the Lord, but I think we must continue to warn people of the dangers of Christian-Zionism.
Philippians 3:2-3 "Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
I have also noticed "Palestine was never a nation' gets repeated ad nauseam.
I get suspicious when hit by that, because it seems like a strategy to throw the chess pieces off the table by getting people into a ridiculous argument. These things are not always done consciously though.
The emptiness of the argument should be obvious to most.
It is based on the Idea that as part of the government of Palestine has been outside Palestine throughout history it therefore has no right to exist as an entity?
Well part of the Australian government is in the British Crown, and the Crown operates as a separate City State from Britain, just as Washington operates as a separate entity from America. Both have part of their government in the Vatican.
By that sort of logic, if the world becomes governed by a computer none of us have the right to exist.
The British Mandate of Palestine was a joint effort between the Palestinians and British. Many Palestinians also resisted it, but the Mandate none the less became victorious as a joint British/Palestinian state.
Since the British part of the arrangement sailed home the Palestinians have been left with their own independent state, sad as that may sound.
There is still a considerable number of simple minded folk who would compare the Israelis to Caleb, Joshua and David, and compare the Palestinians to Goliath and the Canaanites.
Once people get like that they have itching ears for almost anything that seems to support their view.
I would have liked it if they were willing to spend more time on their mis-directed prophesies.I have also noticed "Palestine was never a nation' gets repeated ad nauseam.
They probably realized that that was not going to be a winning strategy with us.
Many of their favorites have their fulfillment explained for us in the NT.
It makes for a fun and interesting study though.
J
John1335
Guest
Sorry, I'm new around here, but I am not new to the Word of God or the Word Made Flesh, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Can you please point me to the scripture where Jesus Christ told us to bless Israel?
Not to be nasty, but can you point where Jesus said that command changed? The Bible also says "
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem! May they be secure who love you!”
J
John1335
Guest
What more can you say to someone who gives a thumbs down to the New Covenant?
Christ gave his precious blood to redeem and restore, and fulfilled every single prophecy concerning Israel in the process.
All these many years later, we still have the Pharisees among us.
J
John1335
Guest
So, should I take that as a no?
You cannot provide the scripture I asked for?
As to your nastiness or lack thereof, I don't know you from Adam. Are you being nasty?
I wouldn't know.
Are you being honest? That is a far more important question.
J
John1335
Guest
I'm very sorry to hear that your family directly suffered from the Nakba. And overjoyed that you have found Christ.
However, I must correct you about something. The root of dispensational heresy goes much deeper than Darby and Scofield.
Look into Francisco Ribera and Manuel Lacunza, both Jesuits.
As well as Edward Irving, who translated the work of Lacunza into English, which is how Darby himself became infected.
Be at peace my brother. There's no fool like an old fool. And you won't change anyone's mind if you fail to operate in the Spirit and in Love. I know it can be difficult. Take a break when necessary and never cease to pray, for them, and that you yourself do not fall into temptation.
Yah alone be praised!!!
Thanks John.
You might have looked deeper into the dispensational story than I have.
Most of my reading has been around the protestant reformers, and I have not been aware of any who tried to present it to that mindset as Darby and Scofield did.
It seems that Darbys influences were not exactly what we would call Christian, but you know more than me about that.
I like being corrected, though I may yet be too old for wisdom to occur.
Anyway I hope you have a lot of fun here.
It certainly changes the dynamics when we all meet outside of those silly denominations.
People feel larger than life on the internet, and all that "keep the unity of the group" stuff can go out the window.
There are a lot of Christian souls in the world craving for truth and honesty.
You may have already notices it is a jungle here, and having not been here long either I am learning to keep my expectations low.
The internet is available to people of any spiritual condition.
J
John1335
Guest
Its a tough crowd for sure. I have no idea how to even begin to convince someone that they have been greatly deceived for most of their lives, or if its even my job to do so.
As long as we are guided by love, for Truth, and for our brethren, I guess we will be safe, but its a thankless task for sure.
Carry on, Godspeed.
Well they say that when in a new jail the "best" way to begin is find the biggest bully and punch him out.
I'm not so sure it is good advice, but sometimes we can learn much in these Biblical sword fights when they are appropriate.
You might not be such an attention seeker though.
It is good to bear in mind that there are real souls behind these digital identities, and they come here for many other good reasons than debating over the verses.
Yes, pray for the peace of Jerusalem, but not for the peace of Sodom and Egypt
But the Jerusalem above is free, which is mother of all of us. Galatians 4:26
But you have come forward to mount Zion, and the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem; and to myriads of angels, Hebrews 12:22
And their corpses will be upon the square of the great city, which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord was crucified. Revelation 11:8
And then Lewis Sperry Chafer, whose mentor was Cyrus Scofield, co-founded the Dallas Theological Seminary, and the cancer spread throughout the world
You're going to be shocked one day to find that unconditional and everlasting means what it says.
No, Replacement Theology is the cancer that spread through the world and is still doing so today. It led directly to the Holocaust.
Oh now you worry about souls after the comment you made to me in the closed thread. I'd be careful about asking for knocking out bullies if I were you.