Israel and the present conflict

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You ignore the fact that God's plan includes the physical nation of Israel. The book of Revelation makes no sense otherwise.

Physical nation means ruled by men. Spiritual nation means ruled by God. God's not going back to a nation ruled by men, especially to one he calls Sodom and Egypt. That era is over.

 

[Gideon300]

In the second temple restoration the people did not just return to the land but to salvation.
In 1948 people invaded and re-named the land but continued to follow religions that have Gentile origin, so by comparison nothing that significant really happened.
The spoken traditions of the elders later written in the Babylonian Talmud are not Jewish, not learned from the prophets of God but from the Babylonian Gentiles.
The Kabbalah has older roots, but is based on the Baal worship of the Gentile Canaanites.
Atheism is predominant in modern Israel, also from the Gentiles not God.
If you think that following these religions is a way of becoming the Jewish apple of God's eye,
It is well worth considering that you are looking in the wrong place to see the fulfillment of God's promises to Israel.

I did not address this point before. Who renamed Israel Palestine? God? No. It was the Romans. When was the nation of Palestine established? Where is its capital? Who were the founders of the nation? You can't tell me because there was never a nation called Palestine and there is therefore no Palestinian nationality. Your grasp of history is pathetic. Jews did not invade the land. They settled there prior to 1948, buying the land from locals and absentee landlords. Remember that so-called Palestine was a province of Turkey until 1917. The Arabs who lived there did not have to leave Israel. Many did not. There are 2 million Arabs living in Israel now.

Israel overcame 5 nations that set out to destroy her. Israel had 3 aircraft in 1948. It is a miracle that Israel survived then and it is a miracle that Israel survives now.

You should support Israel purely from a pragmatic point of view, if not because of God's covenant. It's the only democracy in the Middle East. They are a bulwark against Islamic extremism. For now, anyway. The Western world has allowed Muslims to flood in, bringing their death cult with them. ASIO spends a fortune of taxpayers money to protect us from Muslim terror. Governments fear offending Muslims while not giving a damn about non-Muslims.

The government knows that Muslims lie. In English and in public, Muslims claim to be peaceful. In Arabic in the mosque, they promote Jihad and Sharia law. The government hopes that it can keep a lid on it. You better hope that they are right.

The nations that turn against Israel lose God's blessing. Ask Britain how that's worked out for them. Ask the French also.

Muslims make no secret of their intentions. We hear "From the river to the sea" a lot. We don't hear, "First the Saturday people then the Sunday people" chanted in the streets. That is also the objective of Muslims.

The useful idiots of pro "Palestinian" protestors do not realise what they are supporting. Once Muslims have destroyed Israel, they will turn their attention to the West.

Not every Muslim is a Jihadist, but you don't need many to create real trouble. The genuinely peaceful are not the problem. My heart specialist is Muslim and I was treated by a Muslim doctor in hospital in April. Islam is at heart anti Christ. When Jews run around our cities killing the innocent and shouting God is great, I will change my mind about Jews.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You ignore the fact that God's plan includes the physical nation of Israel. The book of Revelation makes no sense otherwise.

Did it never occur to you that when a wild olive branch gets grafted into the olive tree that it becomes a member of some tribe of Israel based on God's choice?

 

[Gideon300]

Physical nation means ruled by men. Spiritual nation means ruled by God. God's not going back to a nation ruled by men, especially to one he calls Sodom and Egypt. That era is over.

You can argue all you like. God's word contradicts you.

 

[Beekeeper]

I did not address this point before. Who renamed Israel Palestine? God? No. It was the Romans. When was the nation of Palestine established? Where is its capital? Who were the founders of the nation? You can't tell me because there was never a nation called Palestine and there is therefore no Palestinian nationality. Your grasp of history is pathetic. Jews did not invade the land. They settled there prior to 1948, buying the land from locals and absentee landlords. Remember that so-called Palestine was a province of Turkey until 1917. The Arabs who lived there did not have to leave Israel. Many did not. There are 2 million Arabs living in Israel now.

Israel overcame 5 nations that set out to destroy her. Israel had 3 aircraft in 1948. It is a miracle that Israel survived then and it is a miracle that Israel survives now.

You should support Israel purely from a pragmatic point of view, if not because of God's covenant. It's the only democracy in the Middle East. They are a bulwark against Islamic extremism. For now, anyway. The Western world has allowed Muslims to flood in, bringing their death cult with them. ASIO spends a fortune of taxpayers money to protect us from Muslim terror. Governments fear offending Muslims while not giving a damn about non-Muslims.

The government knows that Muslims lie. In English and in public, Muslims claim to be peaceful. In Arabic in the mosque, they promote Jihad and Sharia law. The government hopes that it can keep a lid on it. You better hope that they are right.

The nations that turn against Israel lose God's blessing. Ask Britain how that's worked out for them. Ask the French also.

Muslims make no secret of their intentions. We hear "From the river to the sea" a lot. We don't hear, "First the Saturday people then the Sunday people" chanted in the streets. That is also the objective of Muslims.

The useful idiots of pro "Palestinian" protestors do not realise what they are supporting. Once Muslims have destroyed Israel, they will turn their attention to the West.

Not every Muslim is a Jihadist, but you don't need many to create real trouble. The genuinely peaceful are not the problem. My heart specialist is Muslim and I was treated by a Muslim doctor in hospital in April. Islam is at heart anti Christ. When Jews run around our cities killing the innocent and shouting God is great, I will change my mind about Jews.

A lot of propaganda there.
My grandfather worked hard for his farm in Palestine and was forced to leave against his will at threat of death.
Nobody gave him money for it, and he was a man of peace.
The Muslims in the country did not treat people that way, but the so called Jews treated many that way, and still do.
What you support has been a work of evil from the beginning until now.
Have you never considered that preempting wars against Muslim countries spreads Islam?
It makes us look like the evil ones and forces the people to defend themselves against us, thus radicalizing and militarizing their national religion.
It displaces people, who settle in other countries against their will and arrive with hard feelings against the west.
Christians have also been corrupted and militarized to rally support for this work.
Your "dispensationalism" was invented for that reason.
If you can find me a dispensationalist theological writer who lived before John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) I will recant.
All the protestant theologians before that did not know your religion, because Darby invented it.
The view I have of the "millennium" (not actually a Biblical word) is that it began when Jesus began His earthly ministry and will continue until Jesus returns in an unknown time.
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
The "kingdom of God" is also the true kingdom of Israel.

 

[Beekeeper]

Did it never occur to you that when a wild olive branch gets grafted into the olive tree that it becomes a member of some tribe of Israel based on God's choice?

I bet they don't answer that question.
Way too obvious.
Moving right along...

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Did it never occur to you that when a wild olive branch gets grafted into the olive tree that it becomes a member of some tribe of Israel based on God's choice?

You're as confused as a termite in a yo-yo. smh

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I bet they don't answer that question.
Way too obvious.
Moving right along...

The question makes no sense. smh

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

A lot of propaganda there.
My grandfather worked hard for his farm in Palestine and was forced to leave against his will at threat of death.
Nobody gave him money for it, and he was a man of peace.
The Muslims in the country did not treat people that way, but the so called Jews treated many that way, and still do.
What you support has been a work of evil from the beginning until now.
Have you never considered that preempting wars against Muslim countries spreads Islam?
It makes us look like the evil ones and forces the people to defend themselves against us, thus radicalizing and militarizing their national religion.
It displaces people, who settle in other countries against their will and arrive with hard feelings against the west.
Christians have also been corrupted and militarized to rally support for this work.
Your "dispensationalism" was invented for that reason.
If you can find me a dispensationalist theological writer who lived before John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) I will recant.
All the protestant theologians before that did not know your religion, because Darby invented it.
The view I have of the "millennium" (not actually a Biblical word) is that it began when Jesus began His earthly ministry and will continue until Jesus returns in an unknown time.
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
The "kingdom of God" is also the true kingdom of Israel.

Israel has 3000 yrs of history in the land. Palestine has never been a country. The Jews bought back their own land at trumped up prices. And the land was a barren desert. But they took what was a portion of their homeland and made it bloom again, just as the Bible said. Arabs were offered the bigger, better half of the land and turned it down. They have refused peace deal after peace deal. Even Bill Clinton said they were impossible to please. Historically, biblically, the land belongs to the Jewish people. Now you finally admit why you have an ax to grind and why you deny what the Word says. Took you long enough.

 

[Gideon300]

A lot of propaganda there.
My grandfather worked hard for his farm in Palestine and was forced to leave against his will at threat of death.
Nobody gave him money for it, and he was a man of peace.
The Muslims in the country did not treat people that way, but the so called Jews treated many that way, and still do.
What you support has been a work of evil from the beginning until now.
Have you never considered that preempting wars against Muslim countries spreads Islam?
It makes us look like the evil ones and forces the people to defend themselves against us, thus radicalizing and militarizing their national religion.
It displaces people, who settle in other countries against their will and arrive with hard feelings against the west.
Christians have also been corrupted and militarized to rally support for this work.
Your "dispensationalism" was invented for that reason.
If you can find me a dispensationalist theological writer who lived before John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) I will recant.
All the protestant theologians before that did not know your religion, because Darby invented it.
The view I have of the "millennium" (not actually a Biblical word) is that it began when Jesus began His earthly ministry and will continue until Jesus returns in an unknown time.
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
The "kingdom of God" is also the true kingdom of Israel.

Funny, Sir Isaac Newton predicted the start of the Zionist movement. He was out by a year. Spurgeon was no fan of Derby. Yet he believed that Israel should have its own nation. So did William Gouge and John Locke in the 17th century.

I don't know much about dispensationalism. My wife has a book by Clarence Larkin. I've glanced at it, but that's it. I'm not interested in "isms" generally.

Do you know how many Jews live peacefully in the Middle East? Hardly any. Mostly they've been driven out, without compensation. The UAE is tolerant and there is a Jewish community there. Contrast that with 2 million Arabs living in Israel. They are mostly Muslim.

"Preempting wars". Tell me what you mean. The West went to war to drive Iraq out of Kuwait. The West has attacked murdering terrorists. Islam declared war on the West, not the other way around.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Funny, Sir Isaac Newton predicted the start of the Zionist movement.

Why do you use Isaac Newton as an example as if that means anything or he is someone to look up to and respect spiritually? He was into the occult and was an ardent student of the Talmud and Kaballah. He believed keeping the Noahide laws was sufficient for salvation.

 

[Beekeeper]

Israel has 3000 yrs of history in the land. Palestine has never been a country. The Jews bought back their own land at trumped up prices. And the land was a barren desert. But they took what was a portion of their homeland and made it bloom again, just as the Bible said. Arabs were offered the bigger, better half of the land and turned it down. They have refused peace deal after peace deal. Even Bill Clinton said they were impossible to please. Historically, biblically, the land belongs to the Jewish people. Now you finally admit why you have an ax to grind and why you deny what the Word says. Took you long enough.

I am very familiar with all that Gideonized BS (ox dung if you use the KJV) that they feed to Israeli children.
We all have families.
Do you have an "ax to grind" because of yours?
In the end it is the truth that matters, and that is why we come to the light of scriptures, rather than just insult each others families and go our separate ways.
I think the Bible actually works in matters like this.
The ones that run away from careful examination of the verses are easily recognized.
So what do you think Paul's olive tree represents?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I am very familiar with all that Gideonized BS

Which is what?

So what do you think Paul's olive tree represents?

Romans tells us what it represents. We're chasing our tails.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Israel has 3000 yrs of history in the land.

Make up your mind what Israel is. One minute it's people, the next it's a nation. One minute it was miraculously born in a day, the next it has miraculously existed for 3000 years. Sometimes it's land that needs to be saved from the indigenous people who've lived there for millenia, yet somehow never existed.

 

[Gideon300]

Why do you use Isaac Newton as an example as if that means anything or he is someone to look up to and respect spiritually? He was into the occult and was an ardent student of the Talmud and Kaballah. He believed keeping the Noahide laws was sufficient for salvation.

I was making a point that some theologians believed in the restoration of Israel well before Darby. Newton was one. He had some odd interpretations of scripture but He believed in God the Father, redemption through Christ's blood, the Lordship of Christ and the necessity of baptism.

 

[HeIsHere]

Why do you use Isaac Newton as an example as if that means anything or he is someone to look up to and respect spiritually? He was into the occult and was an ardent student of the Talmud and Kaballah. He believed keeping the Noahide laws was sufficient for salvation.

Agree on Isaac Newton 100%.
Just because a famous person invokes the name of Jesus does not mean they are trustworthy.

 

[HeIsHere]

A lot of propaganda there.
My grandfather worked hard for his farm in Palestine and was forced to leave against his will at threat of death.
Nobody gave him money for it, and he was a man of peace.
The Muslims in the country did not treat people that way, but the so called Jews treated many that way, and still do.
What you support has been a work of evil from the beginning until now.
Have you never considered that preempting wars against Muslim countries spreads Islam?
It makes us look like the evil ones and forces the people to defend themselves against us, thus radicalizing and militarizing their national religion.
It displaces people, who settle in other countries against their will and arrive with hard feelings against the west.
Christians have also been corrupted and militarized to rally support for this work.
Your "dispensationalism" was invented for that reason.
If you can find me a dispensationalist theological writer who lived before John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) I will recant.
All the protestant theologians before that did not know your religion, because Darby invented it.
The view I have of the "millennium" (not actually a Biblical word) is that it began when Jesus began His earthly ministry and will continue until Jesus returns in an unknown time.
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
The "kingdom of God" is also the true kingdom of Israel.

It is very hard to break through a propagandized mind (notice the same talking points rehashed over and over again) in the end you will only become immensely frustrated.

 

[homwardbound]

I do not always respond to those who simply express their opinions.
Nobody is under my dictatorship, and all have a right to opinions of their own.
It is all just background noise to me.
This time you have invoked Jeremiah 31, which you pick up from v.35.
That deserves a response in my opinion, so I will show you how I have come to understand the chapter.

Jeremiah 31:1-30 is Gods message of comfort to the suffering captives. He tells them of the restoration of Jerusalem at the time of the second temple.
I reject attempts to skip over this restoration to a future restoration, because of the time and circumstances that the message was given.
After v. 31 it gets interesting because the New Covenant is introduced.
This is the New Covenant of Jesus and that is a solid fact because the same verses are re-quoted in Hebrews 8:8-12.
Those that attempt to push this event into the future not only hide the testimony of our Lord, but show their allegiance to a Satanic religion that opposes Him.
The nature of the New Covenant shows that God intends a new and improved way of relating to His people:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Now you have picked up the passage immediately after this, where God declares that "If those ordinances (sun moon and stars) depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever" (v.36).

It seems that you think God is speaking of an earthly nation, but He is not.
Heavenly Jerusalem and the Israel of God are realities, and all God's people are citizens of that nation.

There is hope for the Jews who are yet unsaved, but it is in Jesus not in modern Israel.

Thanks for the separation in truth in God's Spirit over flesh nature here on earth, at least to me. I see this when Jesus said my kingdom is not of this earth, If it were I would fight, Said that to Peter, when he had Peter put away that sword, that cut off Malchus's ear. Said to Peter, you think I cannot call legions of Angels. And Jesus continued without any flesh fight back at all.

What gets me, is when risen, he was seen by those that got him killed as not dead. Col 2 that floors me, the love and mercy for us all to not harm others anymore along the way. To share to one another in care, thank you Beekeeper

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Make up your mind what Israel is. One minute it's people, the next it's a nation.
.

Pretty sure you're smart enough to know it's both.

One minute it was miraculously born in a day, the next it has miraculously existed for 3000 years.

I'm repeating what the Word says.

Sometimes it's land that needs to be saved from the indigenous people who've lived there for millenia, yet somehow never existed.

Who said Israel never existed? No one.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Who said Israel never existed? No one.

I was obviously (I thought) talking about the Palestinians