At what point in our salvation is the blood of Christ applied?

[PaulThomson]

No one seem to pay attention to the question ?

They've all gone astrayed......

""At what point in our salvation is the blood of Christ applied?"

Is there any scripture that says Jesus' blood is applied to those being saved?

 

[Me_Clay]

Is there any scripture that says Jesus' blood is applied to those being saved?

Did you received his blood? I dont think so, otherwise you would have know.

 

[Ouch]

But brother, actual water baptism isn't required for SALVATION, is it?!

Question, since being baptized in JESUS name is the only way to get rid of our sins and sin separates us from GOD how is it possible to be saved without water baptism?

Of course we need to repent and need JESUS to fill us with HIS spirit also.

 

[Ouch]

Come on now...

When the Thief on the cross believed in Jesus?
He automatically received the remission of sins.

It is a new way with believing in Christ.

We need to rightly divide the word.

This is why the thief didn't need to be baptized.

When the thief on the cross died, he died OT laws. Where people had to take a sacrifice to the high priests ones a year to have their sins forgiven GOD RULES.

JESUS is our high priest and he became our sacrifice our lamb.
When JESUS was on this earth and forgave sins as he wished like the thief.

JESUS preach app 3 years, died on the cross, buried and rose again. Then he ascended to Heaven to put his blood on the mercy seat.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He then returned to earth and was here app 40 days and ascended again commanding his disciples to wait because they will be filled with the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:3-4

He ascended the second time and this was the first message of how to be reborn.
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Since then until he returns again, we live in NT laws and how to be saved we need to repent, get baptized in JESUS name to get rid of our sins and receive the Holy Ghost like JESUS gave his disciples in Acts 2:4.

 

[Blue155]

Come on now...

When the Thief on the cross believed in Jesus?
He automatically received the remission of sins.

It is a new way with believing in Christ.

The words spoken by the Lord in Luke 23:43 was said to the thief before the death, burial and resurrection. The New Covenant (activated by His death, Heb. 9:16–17; cf. Lk. 24:47) was yet to be in force. The thief was saved by Christ under the law (Mk. 2:10; Gal. 4:4). The thief speaks first (Luke 24:42): “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” The thief and Jesus are still alive. Jesus immediately responds (Luke 24:43): “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Thus, both are still alive at that moment. Jesus gave that promise before the thief died and before He Himself died. When does Heb. 9 say His testament goes into force? While He’s alive or after His death? Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

So, when Jesus saved the thief, His New Covenant was not in force since He was still alive, as it had no power while He was alive. When did it have power? Mark 9:1; Luke 24:49; Acts 1:1-8, 2;1-4 answers that. The keys to the kingdom were used on Pentecost to open the New Covenant.

The thief on the cross could not abide by the same NT theology of how to be saved, because the thief could not even believe in his heart that Jesus had been raised from the dead, so how could he repent and be baptized into His death (Rom. 6:3-6, 10:9-10). Today we must be saved under the authority of Christ under the terms of His New Covenant. Today that is accomplished through submission to God’s command to believe, confess (Acts 16:31; Acts 8:36-37; Rom. 10:9-10) repent and be baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).

Much more could be said, but it’s important to know we are under a better covenant with better promises (Heb. 8:6), and the thief was forgiven and died before Jesus resurrected (Rom. 10:9-10). Baptism into Christ for the remission of sins went in effect under the NT, and the thief died before Jesus’s church was established on Pentecost (Acts 2).

 

[Genez]

Is there any scripture that says Jesus' blood is applied to those being saved?

We as believers can know this:

The blood of Jesus is applied by God to those who are saved and desiring to grow in Christ.
It becomes our "instant" blood sacrifice relief.
God gives this purification to all believers, who so happen to sin, who wish to continue on and to mature.

1 John 1:7

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, ​

and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.​

​

The blood of Jesus is always being with us as long as we are to remain in the defective bodies we were naturally born into.

When we are in our resurrection bodies, the applying of the blood to our lives will no longer be necessary.

grace and peace ..........

 

[Genez]

When John mentioned the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3: 11), he was addressing the multitude as a whole, but when Jesus uttered the promise of this verse he was talking to his apostles. Jesus told the apostles “And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high” (Luke 24:49). This explains Acts 1:4-5 “And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”

So when does the meaning of John the Baptist's words to change?
When spoken to a few?

How many baptisms are we to have during the Church age? Two? Three?
How many?

There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Ephesians 4:5​

Accepting the Word of God by faith prevents the strain of overthinking. One baptism.

Faith...

Impotent Abraham, at age 99, was told he was to have a son by his post 90-year-old, post-menopausal wife Sarah.
Abraham did not stagger at the promise while having no way to figure it out how God was to make it to happen.

There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Ephesians 4:5​

As long as we end up with two baptisms it means you have yet to understand what is needed to be understood.

Faith rest it...

 

[Blue155]

So when does the meaning of John the Baptist's words to change?
When spoken to a few?

How many baptisms are we to have during the Church age? Two? Three?
How many?

There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Ephesians 4:5​

Accepting the Word of God by faith prevents the strain of overthinking. One baptism.

Faith...

Impotent Abraham, at age 99, was told he was to have a son by his post 90-year-old, post-menopausal wife Sarah.
Abraham did not stagger at the promise while having no way to figure it out how God was to make it to happen.

There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Ephesians 4:5​

As long as we end up with two baptisms it means you have yet to understand what is needed to be understood.

Faith rest it...

You answered your own question. There’s one baptism. And that one baptism is for the remission of sins, because everyone needs to get their sins remitted by the blood of Christ by His authority.

 

[Genez]

You answered your own question. There’s one baptism. And that one baptism is for the remission of sins, because everyone needs to get their sins remitted by the blood of Christ by His authority.

You still have us having two baptisms.

Take a break.

 

[Blue155]

You still have us having two baptisms.

Take a break.

I never said people receive two baptisms to receive the forgiveness of sins. I said there is one baptism for the remission of sins. That eliminates any other baptism today.

 

[Genez]

I never said people receive two baptisms to receive the forgiveness of sins. I said there is one baptism for the remission of sins. That eliminates any other baptism today.

There is only ONE baptism.

You keep ending up with TWO.

You're all wet.

 

[Blue155]

There is only ONE baptism.

You keep ending up with TWO.

You're all wet.

There is only one baptism, that is correct. I don’t end up with two, as there’s only one baptism that all people who are Christians have submitted to. That eliminates any other kind.

 

[Genez]

There is only one baptism, that is correct. I don’t end up with two, as there’s only one baptism that all people who are Christians have submitted to. That eliminates any other kind.

Maybe you start your own political party?
You got what it takes.....

 

[Beckworth]

I do not believe I ever said that Spirit baptism saves.

The ones who were saved were to receive Spirit baptism.
Not to receive Spirit baptism to be saved.

There are only two times in the New Testament where anyone ever received the “Baptism” of the Holy Spirit: 1) Acts 2 and 2) Acts 10. The rest of the time they received the Spirit by the laying on of the apostles hands or by being water baptized for the remission of sins. Holy Spirit baptism was given totally at God’s discretion and in His timing. A man could not just go out and get it whenever he wanted it. In both examples, the people who received it were not expecting it at that moment, they were not seeking it, praying for it or trying to get it. That is the nature of the baptism of the Spirit. Man does not control it. WhenxJesys told His disciples to go into all the world and baptize, He was not talking about Holy Spirit baptism. They had no control if that. He was talking about water baptusm. That is the only kind of baptism that depends on man to accept and administer.

People did not get baptized with the Holy Spirit just because they were saved. It was not used for that purpose. It was always used as a “sign” of God’s approval,or God’s presence, it was used in Acts 2 as proof that God was with the apostles and that their message was from Him. It got the Jew’s attention!! It was used as a “sign” to the Jews in Acts 10 that God has accepted the gentiles as recipients of the gospel along with the Jews. Acts 11:18 proves it.

In Acts 8, the Samaritans received the Spirit after they were saved by the laying on of the apostles hands—not by “baptism” of the Spirit. There is not another instance of Holy Spirit “baptism” in the New Testament. It was never promised to everyone who was saved.

 

[Beckworth]

Here's a few verses for you and a line of reason that makes sense...

The prevailing narrative and doctrinal dogma have poisoned many minds to where they can't see the obvious...Meism Salvation vs Christ Alone Salvation; no Greek qualifiers of our feckless faith to rest our Salvation on...just the sure Promise of a Covenantal Father the Hebrew speaks of.

Atonement = Justification

Romans 5:10–11 – “For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more… we shall be saved by His life.”

Romans 3:24–25 – “and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by His blood.”

Romans 8:30 – “And those He predestined He also called; those He called He also justified; those He justified He also glorified.”

2 Corinthians 5:18–19 – “All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to Himself… in Christ God was reconciling the world to Himself.”

What do we do with "those He Justified He Also Glorified"?

This is His eternal plan of Salvation to redeem ALL His children (image of God) that the enemy corrupted...eternal destruction/damnation is a Greek construct...the Hebraic view is that eternity is beyond 'our view" (not His) and that God punishes and exiles with the ultimate view of reconciliation..."those He Justified He Also Glorified" God guarantees it!

The Greek NT teaches a "me centric" Salvation. Christ plus my faith, my belief, my loyalty and you better not falter in your faith or die having engaged in a sinful act, because your entire salvation is in jeopardy.

The New Covenant was given because we are faithless..but God is Faithfull.

The Hebraic Gospel is about Gods Faithfulness as our Kinsman Redeemer and His Gift of making peace by way of His Atoning death on the cross.

Greek = me centric salvation
Hebraic = Christ Covenantal Salvation

This is what is going on...one view is a me centric Salvation that is mine to keep and not screw up and the other is Guaranteed by Gods Blood and Faithful Covenantal Love.

There's plenty of evidence the NT was written in Hebrew originally and then translated into Greek. The entire NT is rife in Hebraisms, idioms, chiasms, puns ect.

The fact that the Greek and English translation gets the verse below completely wrong and the Hebrew gets it right should tell you one is a translation of the other; unless you genuinely think what you read in the English translated from the Greek is what Jesus really meant.

Mathew 23:1-3

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.

In the Hebrew Sephardic manuscripts this verse says "to do whatever Moses says to do" You get a skewed wrong idea from the Greek here wouldn't you say? AND you get what Christ actually said in the Hebrew.

Hebraic worldview: Concrete, relational, covenantal.
Greek worldview: Abstract, juridical, metaphysical.

The Greek for instance in John 1 says the Word, the Word, the Word (abstract), whereas the Hebrew Sephardic manuscripts say the Son, the Son, the Son (Covenantal).

Greek emphasizes my faith, my covenantal loyalty and so that my Salvation hinges on my faithfulness...whereas the Hebraic view is the opposite...it emphasizes God's Faithfulness, His Covenantal loyalty who acted on our behalf (ALONE) as our Kinsman Redeemer.

Western Greekyness just loves having "you" be the qualifier to receive "your Salvation" whereas the Hebraic view has "our Salvation" guaranteed by the qualified Life of Messiah.

Rest in what He Alone has accomplished at the cross...Atonement for ungodly men (Justified) with the Promise of a God Who CAN NOT lie..."those HE justified He will glorify"...no Greeky meism qualifiers that people love so much...

I believe every scripture in the Bible. But not necessarily your interpretation of scripture. The books of Roman’s and Corinthians were written to Christian’s, saints, children of God, the saved— not to non- Christians. So of course it talks about our justification and redemption, but he is talking to people who are saved— not unbelievers and not to the unsaved. Keep it in context! If you lift it out if it’s context, you make it say something the Holy Spirit did not say. Yes, God is going to redeem all of HIs CHILDREN but not all people are God’s children; only the ones who obey him are His spiritual children. All people may be called His PHYSICAL children because He is our creator— he made us; but only those who obey His gospel are His SPIRITUAL children. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 - “
“when the Lord Jesus is revealed from
Heaven with His mighty angels in flam-
Ing fire taking vengeance on those who
Do not know God and ON THOSE WHO DO
NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL of our Lord Jesus
Christ. These shall be punished with
EVERLASTING destruction….”
And while Jesus prayed on the Cross for them all to be forgiven, the forgiveness was available to everyone, but only those who’ repent” and seek forgiveness will be forgiven. It does not mean that everyone in the world is automatically forgiven whether they repent or not. That is a misunderstanding and a misinterpretation of scripture. So, yes, Christ paid the sacrifice that provides “reconciliation” for the whole world, but only those who believe and obey will be reconciled to God. Salvation is conditional on faith and obedience. It is not automatic and the Bible teaches this over and over. When the Eunuch wanted to be baptized, Phillip says “Uf you believe, you may.” Baptism is conditional upon Faith. God has made it so. Do not take God’s word out if it’s context! And do not ignore all of those scriptures that make salvation conditional upon our obedience.
“We know that we know Him if we keep His commandments. He who says ‘I know Him’ and does not keep His commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in Him. Whoever KEEPS HIS WORD, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we KNOW we are in Him.” 1 John 2:3.

 

[Genez]

There are only two times in the New Testament where anyone ever received the “Baptism” of the Holy Spirit: 1) Acts 2 and 2) Acts 10. The rest of the time they received the Spirit by the laying on of the apostles hands

Laying on of hands was because it was all new and the understanding was not yet esstablished.

Here is what happens to ALL believers.

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, ​

the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him ​

with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit. Ephesians 1:13​

​

​

For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews ​

or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 1 Corinthians 12:13​

​

As Jesus said it would be?
Those who believed were baptized!

This is going to be a confusing issue for the type that likes and wants something tangible like ritual to make them feel secure.

.

 

[Genez]

There is only one baptism, that is correct..

Well then?
Is it water baptism?

Or?
Spirit baptism?

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice,
“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me,
as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.

Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified."

John 7:37-39
​

.

 

[Blue155]

Well then?
Is it water baptism?

Or?
Spirit baptism?

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice,
“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me,
as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.

Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified."

John 7:37-39
​

.

Me and @Beckworth have already told you what the one baptism is!!! I’m pretty sure @DJT_47 has also explained it elsewhere, but you continue to reject the actual purpose and the reason of Holy Ghost baptism being for a distinct and special purpose for the chosen apostles of Jesus Christ on Pentecost, and the baptism that Christ commanded by His authority for the remission of sins to be administered throughout the world that began in Jerusalem on Pentecost (Mt. 28:19-20; Mk. 16:15-16; Lk. 24:47; Acts 2:38)!!! At this point, there is no use in continuing the convo with you. Holy Spirit baptism was a promise to the chosen apostles that they were to receive at Pentecost. That’s why Jesus told them to tarry in the city (Lk. 24:49), not to depart from it (Acts 1:1-8). They were to wait for the promise of the Father (Acts 1:4). That was to the chosen apostles of Christ for a special purpose!!! And it was to empower them with miracles and bring remembrance to help confirm the word so the gospel could be spread (Heb. 2:1-4; Mk. 16:20; John 16:13, 14:26, Acts 2:1-4)!! Other people who received miracles also was able to confirm the word (Mk. 16:20; Heb. 2:1-4). When the church was established, they did not have the complete written New Testament to point to a New Testament scripture when they were out preaching and teaching, so they needed to show people what they were saying was true!! That is one of the purposes for the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the miraculous abilities they received, as well as the miraculous gifts that others had received that the Spirit gave them when an apostle laid hands on them (Acts 8, 19; Rom. 1:4; 1 Cor. 12:11)!!!

The baptism with the Holy Spirit was never a universal command, never administered by men, and never presented as the “one baptism”!!! By the time Paul wrote Ephesians 4, there was only one baptism that is commanded, universal, and active. Water baptism for the remission of sins!!!

“Rivers of living water” refers to the Spirit’s life-giving message that the Spirit provides (John 4:14, 6:63; Eph. 6:17). The apostles and disciples spoke it. That is referring to the gospel of Christ. The word of truth (John 17:17). The gospel of Christ flowed and continues to flow out of believers that teaches others how to have eternal life in Christ!!! The Spirit of truth flows out of believers by having the word of Christ dwelling in them (Col. 3:16)!!

Continuing to explain John 7:38-39, those “believing in Him” upon repenting and being baptized for the remission of sins “would receive” what the Spirit gave and promises to all believers!! Salvation and all the blessings that come with being “in Christ” (Acts 2:38-39; Gal. 3:14, 26-29; Eph. 1:1:3, 13 cf. Acts 26:18)!!

 

[Genez]

Me and @Beckworth have already told you what the one baptism is!!! I’m pretty sure @DJT_47 has also explained it elsewhere, but you continue to reject the actual purpose and the reason of Holy Ghost baptism being for a distinct and special purpose for the chosen apostles of Jesus Christ on Pentecost, and the baptism that Christ commanded by His authority for the remission of sins to be administered throughout the world that began in Jerusalem on Pentecost (Mt. 28:19-20; Mk. 16:15-16; Lk. 24:47; Acts 2:38)!!! At this point, there is no use in continuing the convo with you.

Were all the people at Pentecost who spoke in tongues baptized in the Spirit?

......

 

[Genez]

Me and @Beckworth have already told you what the one baptism is!!! I’m pretty sure @DJT_47 has also explained it elsewhere, but you continue to reject the actual purpose and the reason of Holy Ghost baptism being for a distinct and special purpose for the chosen apostles of Jesus Christ on Pentecost, and the baptism that Christ commanded by His authority for the remission of sins to be administered throughout the world that began in Jerusalem on Pentecost (Mt. 28:19-20; Mk. 16:15-16; Lk. 24:47; Acts 2:38)!!!

Now you can argue that at Pentecost those who spoke in tongues were the disciples of Jesus.

But? These folks? Were not!

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. ​

The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy ​

Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and ​

praising God." Acts 10:44-46​

We'll get to the bottom of this if we have patience...