Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Genez]

I was called out of the world. You know, being in the world but not of it.

You were of the world before salvation.

Ephesians 2:1-3

All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following ​

its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.​

So?

Those who are not of this world are deserving wrath???


,

 

[Genez]

If you were walking in the Spirit it wouldn't have been a mistake. Try walking in the Spirit when you post with me. Problem solved.

If I were walking in the Spirit I would most likely Ignore you.

 

[Magenta]

The Bible also says...how can they hear without a preacher? Who was the preacher God sent to Jericho?

It boggles the mind that someone can deny what scripture clearly teaches.

Bro... FWers do it continually. Contradict, outright deny, claim it does not mean what it says, and rewrite rewrite rewrite.

The gospel is hid. Bro, it doesn't mean that the gospel is hid.

The natural man cannot understand. Bro, it doesn't mean that the natural man cannot understand.

A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Bro, it doesn't mean that a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit.

The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth. Bro, it doesn't mean that the world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth.

Ad nauseum... ad infinitum...

 

[Cameron143]

If I were walking in the Spirit I would most likely Ignore you.

At least you can admit your error and lack of spirituality.

BTW...do you believe Jericho was an evangelistic campaign?

 

[Cameron143]

Bro... FWers do it continually. Contradict, outright deny, claim it does not mean what it says, and rewrite rewrite rewrite.

The gospel is hid. Bro, it doesn't mean that the gospel is hid.

The natural man cannot understand. Bro, it doesn't mean that the natural man cannot understand.

A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Bro, it doesn't mean that a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit.

The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth. Bro, it doesn't mean that the world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth.

Ad nauseum... ad infinitum...

It still boggles the mind.

 

[Genez]

At least you can admit your error and lack of spirituality.

BTW...do you believe Jericho was an evangelistic campaign?

It was a battle in war campaign.

Rehab already had faith, as seen in her confession here.

​

Before the spies lay down for the night, she went up on the roof and said to them, ​

“I know that the Lord has given you this land and that a great fear of you has fallen ​

on us, so that all who live in this country are melting in fear because of you. ​

We have heard how the Lord dried up the water of the Red Sea for you when you came ​

out of Egypt, and what you did to Sihon and Og, the two kings of the Amorites east of ​

the Jordan, whom you completely destroyed. When we heard of it, our hearts melted ​

in fear and everyone’s courage failed because of you, for the Lord your God is God in ​

heaven above and on the earth below." ​

Joshua 2:8-11

 

[Jordon]

I never said sting did not believe in God ... and I'm glad he does. I have never heard sting acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ ... have you?

Here's what Bodie told an interviewer in response to a question:

Question:​

​

Whisper and the Wind … it’s such a beautiful song. Can you quickly share with us the story behind the song and why it matters to you?​

​

Answer:​

​

In a nutshell I wanted to write a song that acknowledged two really important truths. One, we believe in a God that still does miracles and we still … you know, apart from the Lord we can do nothing and often times when we pray and we believe and we gather, ah, we see Him do things we could never, never even fathom happening.​

​

But I venture to say that maybe more often than that He doesn’t answer the prayers that we’re hoping for in the time or in the timing or in the way that we’re hoping for.​

​

But that doesn’t mean that He’s not there. It doesn’t mean that He doesn’t love us … doesn’t mean that he doesn’t care But there’s a bigger plan. And a lot of the times we think if He doesn’t answer my prayer He must not be listening. ​

​

But it’s so far from that. It's the fact that He is there. He just wants to mourn with you. He wants to grow with you. He wants to stretch you. He wants to build you. And so, I just wanted to write a song that acknowledged yes, Lord, You’re with me in the winds … in those gusty miraculous moments … but Lord, You’re also with me in the whisper of Your Spirit … the quiet times with Him.​

youtu.be/1MeB_IWqhsg?si=7M8X8pDMAM ... question is at 1:11 of the video​

stripped down version ...

radio version ...

.

ok Mrs well I'll take your word for it

 

[Magenta]

It still boggles the mind.

I agree. A lot of it goes back to their Pelagian heresy. Man is not the creature God's Word makes him out to be. He started out good, some will even say perfect, though God never said that, and then did not get really bad until the flood... because disobeying the one and only command was not that bad, introducing sin and death was not that bad a thing, casting the whole of creation into corruption was not that bad, the second man murdering the third man, his brother, was not that bad? Gosh. No, it was not bad until the wickedness of man was so great in the earth that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually, and God rued the day, and flooded the earth... or so some say. Man's heart after all is not incurably wicked, he can grow something good from it even though Jesus said he could not. He does not hate the light as Scripture says, he will choose to come into the light as a slave to sin and lover of darkness, he chooses to believe what he cannot even receive or comprehend, that which he is inherently opposed to. His flesh will make that decision which will please God even though it is explicitly articulated that the flesh cannot please God, cannot submit to God, is incapable of obeying God; even so, man, we are told, is not born incapable, they tell us Scripture says no such thing regardless of the fact that it is plainly written, salvation is not by the will of the flesh, flesh serves the law of sin and brings forth fruit unto death. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, true wisdom originates from a reverent awe of God, a concept absent in the worldview of those who do not believe.

 

[Magenta]

You were of the world before salvation.

Your non-point is pointless.

If you disagree with Scripture just say so.

 

[OLDBUTNEW]

ok Mrs well I'll take your word for it

@Jordon : Good one, Bro! Funny stuff!

 

[Jordon]

You mean you were always regenerated?

Still playing the wise guy eh.

Regeneration

The wages for sin = death,.

Sin entered the seed of man,

Sin corrupted the seed of man

The seed of man did what the Bible says. It suffered death became of sin


The seed of man then needed a new seed to come.

And it did in the form of Jesus

The bee pollinates the flower.

The bee is Jesus

As the saying goes to bee or not to bee.

So without the bee you wouldn't get pollinated, and you wouldn't be a flower.

When the seed completely dies after pollination you get a new seed that bares much fruit and there you have the story of regeneration

 

[Jordon]

@Jordon : Good one, Bro! Funny stuff!

Well you've got to submit to the women bro you just never hear the last of it if you don't .

 

[Genez]

Your non-point is pointless.

If you disagree with Scripture just say so.

I agreed with this Scripture that you seemed to have turned a blind eye to.

I will show you again.

Please address the Scripture this time.

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live ​

when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, ​

the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.​

​

​

Ephesians 2:1-2​

Here is more context. Verses 1-7.

It should become obvious to anyone who studies the Bible.

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live ​

when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, ​

the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among ​

them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and ​

thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. ​

​

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ ​

even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. ​

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms ​

in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable ​

riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.​

When you were deserving of wrath?
You had to still be definitely of this world.

If you want to argue this, and say it is not so?

Then it is you who have a serious problem with Scripture.


......

 

[Jordon]

I agreed with this Scripture that you seemed to have turned a blind eye to.

I will show you again.

Please address the Scripture this time.

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live ​

when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, ​

the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.​

​

​

Ephesians 2:1-2​

Here is more context. Verses 1-7.

It should become obvious to anyone who studies the Bible.

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live ​

when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, ​

the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among ​

them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and ​

thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. ​

​

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ ​

even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. ​

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms ​

in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable ​

riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.​

When you were deserving of wrath?
You had to still be definitely of this world.

If you want to argue this, and say it is not so?

Then it is you who have a serious problem with Scripture.


......

magenta has already said she was saved mid life.

Your an absolute nutcase.

 

[Magenta]

magenta has already said she was saved mid life.

Your an absolute nutcase.

Well, if I live to 100 it will have been mid life LOL.

Though people generally do call mid-life around 40 to 50. I was 49..

You have a good memory!.

 

[Jordon]

Well, if I live to 100 it will have been mid life LOL.

Though people generally do call mid-life around 40 to 50. I was 49..

You have a good memory!.

well I hope so m it would be lovely to have our great mum of the saints around here for the next 30 years.

 

[bytheblood]

actually, it is death that passed upon all men because all sin:

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned

The "sin" of Adam and Eve did not pass to their descendants ... all die because all sin and the wages of sin is death.

.

The sin/ rebellious " nature ", ( the "old man ") was passed down to the descendants of Adam and Eve. When we receive Jesus the Christ as our Savior we are given a new nature "Eph. 4:22-24 " That you put off concerning the former conversation ( way of life ) the old man (nature), which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that you put on the new man (nature) which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." To put off or to put on are a matter of the will.

 

[Magenta]

well I hope so m it would be lovely to have our great mum of the saints around here for the next 30 years.

Thank you, Jordon, you are funny and sweet! It is of course up to God though few make it to a hundred LOL

 

[Gpianolf]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life; however, I think our options are far more restricted than most realize. What do you think?

A famous musician once sang a song saying that we are all slaves to something. And it turns out that this is biblically accurate. I used to believe that what is known as Calvinism was heretical. Once I learned more about it and what it was teaching, as well as what it wasn't teaching, I realized I was wrong. Understanding what a term or label originally and truly means is very important. Otherwise, you have groups of people all saying literally the same thing but meaning vastly different things.

I say that to say, the doctrine of free will isn't what people have made it out to be, and furthermore, the doctrine of election is not what others have made it out to be. Free will does not mean we are fully or even partially autonomous creatures. There is zero evidence for that given the most basic truths of life: we don't decide when and where we are born, we don't decide which family we are born into, we don't decide how our lives shake out, and aside from suicide (which I would still argue isn't totally controlled by the individual) we don't decide when or how we die. And that's just to name a few. Adversely, the doctrine of election doesn't teach that we are all soulless robots, as many "free will-ers" suggest. Paul clarifies ALL of this in Romans 6:15-23. We aren't robots, and we aren't autonomous. We are slaves. Period. It's about who our master is. It's either Christ or it's Satan. Case closed.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you go on presenting yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you obeyed from the heart that pattern of teaching to which you were given over, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, leading to further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, leading to sanctification.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then having from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you have your benefit, leading to sanctification, and the end, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:15-23 LSB

 

[cv5]

If I were walking in the Spirit I would most likely Ignore you.

I just made a quick pit stop here. Scanned the last few pages. And what is most remarkable is the ease by which it is possible to discern those who are the inmates and those who are the freedmen.

In fact it is impossible that it could not be more blatantly obvious....