Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Jordon]

What is the fourth commandment?

Well the good news with the tenth greatest commandment of free will

It's say you can be what ever word you want it to be m

 

[Jordon]

Are you a believer m

 

[Rufus]

Has God ever prevented anyone from believing in the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation?

He will convict/convince the WORLD.

Just typing" The Lord Jesus Christ" is convicting/convincing to all who read it.

His very name is salvation.


Acts 17:31~~because He has set a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all people by raising Him from the dead.”

Now answer my question! Has God ever prevented anyone life who desired to be born again?

 

[sawdust]

So you are in error and your response isn't to admit it but attack the one pointing it out. I can just smell the aroma of Christ.

How am I in error? Once again you completely side track from the issue. It wasn't that I didn't ask for posts, I didn't ask specifically for any of mine or Genez's posts because he was speaking non-specific in regards to individuals and my response was non-specific as well.

I wanted to see anyone's post where they claimed we have to give God consent to act.

Strewth. You are really hard work.

 

[Rufus]

Amazing. Proven wrong but can't admit it. Instead has to speak of something else. Will you admit the sin nature does not have desires or will you continue to ignore your error and pretend it never happened?

I never said God has made a covenant with the world. Once again you simply put words in my mouth to justify yourself.

Every human being, as God's image-bearers have desires! To deny that you never had desires when you were unsaved is to deny that you're a human being.

And I proved you wrong. The world God so loves and reconciled to himself is the world that is filled with Abraham's spiritual descendants.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

And this thread (among many others) is exactly why it is usually fruitless talking about biblical things with others online. Much better either privately, in person, or privately online with someone that is seeking to learn, hear and listen to the other side. Finding common ground to start off with is a must.

Such discussions really do sharpen my sword when it comes to unbiblical beliefs like Calvinism. They also help me better understand and accurately represent what Calvinists actually teach, even though I strongly disagree with their conclusions.

You are right that many here just are not interested in seeing the truth on this issue right now. Maybe one day they will allow the Scriptures to correct their thinking. I say we keep hoping and praying for that.


....

 

[Rufus]

It is God who establishes you in Christ. God made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. We have not received the spirit of the world. God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts. If the Spirit of God lives in you, you are not controlled by the flesh, but by the Spirit. By this we know that we remain in Him, and He in us: He has given us of His Spirit.

That can't be right! Sounds like supernatural power -- the kind of power God used when he created the universe. How can anyone resist that power? So, Paul has to be wrong.

 

[Rufus]

@Rufus, nope. That’s what YOU think it translates into. Instead of misrepresenting and lying about me, I suggest you either understand my position, or repent for lying about what I believe and am. Otherwise, we have nothing left to discuss. Have the final word, if it makes you feel cozy and better inside.

Okay....night, night. Don't let the bed bugs bite.

 

[Rufus]

LOL

The entire race was condemned. Why do you think we are born dead in our sin and die physically and why do you think Christ died in our place?

If that's so, then neither Adam or Eve were saved. Or were they aliens from outer space?

 

[sawdust]

Every human being, as God's image-bearers have desires! To deny that you never had desires when you were unsaved is to deny that you're a human being.

And I proved you wrong. The world God so loves and reconciled to himself is the world that is filled with Abraham's spiritual descendants.

I have never said human don't have desires. I said the sin nature which, is not a human being, does not have desires, it is a reactive impulse.


The only thing you have proven is you cannot comprehend what is said.

Thank God for free will. Bye.

 

[sawdust]

If that's so, then neither Adam or Eve were saved. Or were they aliens from outer space?

Why is there no limit to stupidity Lord?

They were condemned, they both died but they repented and believed so ended up in God's salvation plan.

The fact I even have to say this is unbelievable.

 

[Jordon]

Okay....night, night. Don't let the bed bugs bite.

more like ear wigs lol

 

[Jordon]

Why is there no limit to stupidity Lord?

They were condemned, they both died but they repented and believed so ended up in God's salvation plan.

The fact I even have to say this is unbelievable.

The 6th greatest commandment of free will is though can be stupid if though wants to be m

 

[NightTwister]

Well, I do see now what you two are saying. It appears both of you are correct in how you are describing classic Calvinism. Thank you for clarifying this for me, even though I still do not agree with the system itself.

I did some digging with Perplexity.ai, and it appears you two are correct that classic Calvinists distinguish “regeneration” from “salvation,” treating regeneration primarily as the giving of spiritual life rather than salvation itself. Again, thank you for explaining this. I have talked with Calvinists on and off since 2010 and never picked up on this detail, so I appreciate the clarification.

However, Hyper-Calvinists go in a different direction. They believe salvation occurs in the moment of regeneration, before faith, and they often reject preaching the gospel universally. They will only preach if they first see signs that someone might be one of the Elect.

While I disagree with both Classic Calvinism and Hyper-Calvinism, the Hyper-Calvinist view that regeneration and salvation are inseparably linked is actually closer to what the Bible teaches, although they still get the order wrong for when the new birth takes place. Scripture consistently presents being a child of God, or being born again (regeneration), as salvation itself. This means the idea that regeneration before faith merely imparts spiritual life but does not bring salvation is out of step with what the Bible clearly teaches about the new birth.

Connection:
Children of God equals Children of the resurrection

Luke 20:36
“Neither can they die any more: for they are… the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.”

Resurrection children do not die again. That describes eternal life.



Believing Is Tied to Both Being Born Again and Having Eternal Life

Notice how the Bible explains who is born again and who has eternal life.

1 John 5:1 tells us who is born of God:
“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.”

Believing that Jesus is the Christ is what makes a person born of God. There is no secondary step. Belief results in the new birth.

Then 1 John 5:13 shows what those same believers possess:
“That ye may believe on the name of the Son of God; and that ye may know that ye have eternal life.”

The ones who believe are the ones who have eternal life, and God says they can know it.



Put together, the chain is clear:

• The one who believeth is born of God
• The one who believeth hath eternal life



Salvation is directly tied to believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and the new birth (regeneration). Scripture never separates being born again from having eternal life. Both belong to the believer according to the plain wording of the KJV.

Jesus even said to Nicodemus, " Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:5 KJV). This implies salvation (entering the Kingdom) is tied to being born again.

In any event, whether agree or disagree, may the Lord Jesus Christ bless you both.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

A mere Bible Highlighter.






....

I'm still not John Calvin. Grace and Peace

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I'm still not John Calvin. Grace and Peace

I never said you were John Calvin. That would be a pretty ridiculous claim to make. It is not possible for John Calvin to be alive today.

All I am saying is that if your belief aligns with one that did not exist before John Calvin, Beza, and the systematic clarification of those teachings in the Canons of Dort, then it is not technically wrong or incorrect for me to say you believe in Calvinism if your belief aligns with the five points of TULIP. It doesn’t really matter if you are a self-identifying 4-point Calvinist, 3-point Calvinist, or anything in between. The labeling simply follows what your beliefs line up with. If you prefer not to be called a Calvinist, then that’s great. It still does not change the perception of how I and most of Christianity would view your belief.

I can say that I am mostly Arminian, but I do not agree with Total Depravity. I believe in Partial Depravity, and I believe that the term "Prevenient Grace" should be called “Temporary Enablement or Enlightenment.” I am not afraid to agree with any labels that came before me if those labels fit and are biblical. For example, I am not ashamed to say I am a Trinitarian. Trinity means three in one, which is exactly what 1 John 5:7 KJV is saying.

If you are not a Calvinist, then the burden of proof is on you to show us why you think you are not one.



....

 

[Jordon]

I never said you were John Calvin. That would be a pretty ridiculous claim to make. It is not possible for John Calvin to be alive today.

All I am saying is that if your belief aligns with one that did not exist before John Calvin, Beza, and the systematic clarification of those teachings in the Canons of Dort, then it is not technically wrong or incorrect for me to say you believe in Calvinism if your belief aligns with the five points of TULIP. It doesn’t really matter if you are a self-identifying 4-point Calvinist, 3-point Calvinist, or anything in between. The labeling simply follows what your beliefs line up with. If you prefer not to be called a Calvinist, then that’s great. It still does not change the perception of how I and most of Christianity would view your belief.

I can say that I am mostly Arminian, but I do not agree with Total Depravity. I believe in Partial Depravity, and I believe that the term "Prevenient Grace" should be called “Temporary Enablement or Enlightenment.” I am not afraid to agree with any labels that came before me if those labels fit and are biblical. For example, I am not ashamed to say I am a Trinitarian. Trinity means three in one, which is exactly what 1 John 5:7 KJV is saying.

If you are not a Calvinist, then the burden of proof is on you to show us why you think you are not one.



....

simply putting things in a little box is the 7th greatest commandment of free will

7 though shall think inside the box.

It's just to protect your free will m

Because if you think out of the box with free will you will never admit that the 5 points of tulip line up with your hero John Calvin.

 

[Genez]

This is what fools do! They multiply words and hide behind their useless, equivocating, obfuscating word salads while their self-deceived hearts make them believe they actually said something of value.

Can I quote you at your hearing?

 

[BillyBob]

But an esteemed superbly educated Greek/Hebrew expert like Theme? He would expose/destroy you and the rest of your crew in a glorious yet effortless humiliating defeat. I mean he would mop the floor with the lot of you without breaking a sweat.

In fact, you are not worthy of even so much as entering the ring with somebody like Theme. It would be like Wally Cox vs Mike Tyson.

Boy, I wish that he had been around in Calvin's day, he sure would have straightened him out!

 

[Believer08]

Why do we not have free will? And how do you know we do not? Is it possible we have free will, and you’re using your free will to say we do not have free will? Did God decide not to give us free will? Knowing is not forcing.

 

[BillyBob]

Why do we not have free will? And how do you know we do not? Is it possible we have free will, and you’re using your free will to say we do not have free will? Did God decide not to give us free will? Knowing is not forcing.

Everyone has freewill. However, man is not saved due to his will, but by the will of the Father.