Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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1 Corinthians 3 v 19-21a, 1 Corinthians 1 v 19 ~ The wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness.” And again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” Therefore, stop boasting in men. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
 
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Believer08 said:
And this thread (among many others) is exactly why it is usually fruitless talking about biblical things with others online. Much better either privately, in person, or privately online with someone that is seeking to learn, hear and listen to the other side. Finding common ground to start off with is a must.
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Well I don't know why you break the the fourth greatest commandment m

Number 4 free will is above it's self
 
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1 Peter 2 v 7-8 To you who believe, then, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word- and to this they were appointed.
 
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BillyBob said:
God would be just if He condemned the entire human race!
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He did.

Thus the gracious offer of the gift to ALL.

Rom 5:15
But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
 
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sawdust said:
Stop procrastinating and show us the post then we might be able to make an account. Until then your words are simply empty talk.
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There is no post of me asking you or @Genez about God getting consent to convict individuals of sin. I asked 3 different posters the question, all who have said God does not act sovereignly in human affairs. Crickets from them.
The post you responded to was an unsolicited response by @Genez to my question of another poster. In your response you said you would to see the post where either of you said God needed your consent, insinuating that I made such a claim. I did not. Neither did I ask either of you the question. So...just like you wanted to see nonexistent posts, I did too.
 
Cameron143 said:
How do people use so many words and say nothing?
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Sure you may be able to peddle your pseudo-intellectual pseudo-philosophical snake-oil dogma to biblically illiterate rubes on a message board.

But an esteemed superbly educated Greek/Hebrew expert like Theme? He would expose/destroy you and the rest of your crew in a glorious yet effortless humiliating defeat. I mean he would mop the floor with the lot of you without breaking a sweat.

In fact, you are not worthy of even so much as entering the ring with somebody like Theme. It would be like Wally Cox vs Mike Tyson.
 
cv5 said:
Sure you may be able to peddle your pseudo-intellectual pseudo-philosophical snake-oil dogma to biblically illiterate rubes on a message board.

But an esteemed superbly educated Greek/Hebrew expert like Theme? He would expose/destroy you and the rest of your crew in a glorious yet effortless humiliating defeat. I mean he would mop the floor with the lot of you without breaking a sweat.

In fact, you are not worthy of even so much as entering the ring with somebody like Theme. It would be like Wally Cox vs Mike Tyson.
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More empty words. More theological gobbledygook.

You do realize that those who translated the Bible were language scholars, right?
 
Cameron143 said:
There is no post of me asking you or @Genez about God getting consent to convict individuals of sin. I asked 3 different posters the question, all who have said God does not act sovereignly in human affairs. Crickets from them.
The post you responded to was an unsolicited response by @Genez to my question of another poster. In your response you said you would to see the post where either of you said God needed your consent, insinuating that I made such a claim. I did not. Neither did I ask either of you the question. So...just like you wanted to see nonexistent posts, I did too.
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I never asked for our posts as in Genez and myself. Genez was speaking of all those you keep asking questions of and then accuse of never answering. The "us" was in reference to all who have disagreed with you in this thread and you have plied with questions.

Genez said:
No one ever answers your questions.
Why is that so frequent with you?!

You want to maneuver people into a place for your advantage.
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@Genez post was non-specific in regards to specific individuals. I responded in like manner.

Once again you make a claim but offer no evidence. Show us what was said and maybe you will get an answer or maybe you will have your understanding of what was said straightened out.

My guess would be what you interpreted as "God does not act sovereignly" was more likely they said "God does not act like a bully".
 
Bible_Highlighter said:
If God is capable of snapping His fingers to save some people against their will, then why does He not do this for everyone else?

The answer is obvious. He doesn’t.
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Correct, He doesn't. Here, God is in fact NEGOTIATING the Covenant with the Israelites, via His Prophet Moses.
Likewise, God negotiated with Mary in Luke chapter 1.

All parties were INFORMED and provided CONSENT before entering into the covenant that the Lord provided.

Same goes for the New Covenant!


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Below is a scripturally grounded count of seven ascents, with exact verse references and context. All citations are from the Masoretic Text / standard English translations (e.g., ESV, NIV, KJV).


The Seven Ascents of Moses on Mount Sinai



# Scripture Reference Description 1Exodus 19:3–7First ascent: God calls Moses up the mountain before the Ten Commandments. Moses goes up, receives instructions about consecrating the people, and comes down.2Exodus 19:8–9, 14Second ascent: After relaying God’s words, Moses goes back up briefly to report the people’s response ("All that the LORD has spoken we will do"). God tells him to return and prepare the people. He descends again.3Exodus 19:20–25Third ascent: God summons Moses up again after the boundaries are set. Moses ascends, is warned about the people breaking through, and is sent down to warn them.4Exodus 24:1–3, 9–12Fourth ascent (with elders): God calls Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, and 70 elders up. They see God, eat and drink, then Moses alone is called higher (v. 12) to receive the tablets. This begins the 40-day stay (but counts as a distinct ascent from the prior short trips).5Exodus 32:15, 30–34Fifth ascent (after the Golden Calf): Moses descends with the tablets (breaks them), deals with the sin, then goes up again to make atonement: "I will go up to the LORD; perhaps I can make atonement..." (32:30). He pleads for the people (32:31–33).6Exodus 34:2–4Sixth ascent (new tablets): God commands: "Be ready in the morning, and come up... present yourself to me there..." Moses cuts new tablets and ascends again to receive the renewed covenant (34:4–28). Another 40 days and nights.7Exodus 34:29Seventh ascent implied in descent: After the second 40-day period, Moses comes down with the new tablets, face glowing. While not stated as "going up" again, this descent confirms a prior ascent (the sixth listed above is the going up; this is the coming down). Some count this descent as evidence of the seventh trip (up and down cycle).


Summary of Ascents (7 Total)

  1. Ex 19:3 – Up to hear initial instructions
  2. Ex 19:8 – Up to report people’s acceptance
  3. Ex 19:20 – Up to receive boundary warning
  4. Ex 24:12 – Up with elders, then alone for 40 days (first tablets)
  5. Ex 32:30 – Up to atone after Golden Calf
  6. Ex 34:4 – Up with new tablets for 40 days (second set)
  7. Implied in Ex 34:29 – Final descent confirms the last ascent
[Exo 19:8 KJV]
And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

[Exo 24:3 KJV]
And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.

[Exo 24:7 KJV]
And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.

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I wonder how Moses would have dealt with Calvinist dogma spreading throughout the camp?
Probably drastically......:censored:
 
sawdust said:
I'd like to see the post where one of us ever said God needed our consent to act. They make stuff up from their imagining and then blame us for their error. <shrug>

So be it. They will be the ones answering for their words.
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Seems like you actually did ask for posts.
 
sawdust said:
:ROFL:

Strewth man! Everything said here is in a post, what else would I ask for when I ask for what someone said?

You really need to kick that procrastinating devil to the curb. ;)
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So you are in error and your response isn't to admit it but attack the one pointing it out. I can just smell the aroma of Christ.
 
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