God declares the will of flesh lives in men.
Of course it's free untill it's dead m
It's called freedom of thought
But you couldn't just have any woman you want could you m
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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God declares the will of flesh lives in men.
Of course it's free untill it's dead m
It's called freedom of thought
But you couldn't just have any woman you want could you m
That is a logical fallacy and ignores what Scripture actually says. Man does have
volition and makes choices, but this does not equate to having a will that is free.
People making mundane choices does not in any way address what the Bible teaches about man's will being enslaved to sin, blinded to the truth, unable to hear, incapable of submitting to God, a lover of darkness, refusing to come into the light, hearing the gospel as foolishness, unable to receive or comprehend the spiritual things of God, to which he is opposed and to Whom he is hostile toward while under the power and influence of the devil, as is the whole world, out of which believers have been called. Thinking your will is free simply because you can choose what colour of socks to wear or what to have for lunch, or whether to do the right or wrong things, has no bearing on the eternal fate of your soul, and mixing it in with what the Bible teaches about the estate of fallen man is a distraction from the real issue.
This is the crux of the conversation, for it is out of man's nature that he makes choices, and it is with the heart that one believes... the free will proponents essentially assert that the incurably wicked heart of the natural/unregenerated man is free to choose to believe that which he is not only opposed to, but that which he can neither receive/accept nor comprehend. They have the man with zero wisdom acting wise to do God's will when Scripture says that man cannot. And their idea of wisdom is that person choosing to believe what they hear as foolishness. They reject what Jesus said about it being impossible for a bad tree to bring forth good fruit, and there are none good, no, not one! But they reject a whole slew of Scriptures from beginning to end of the Bible, such as nothing good lives in man's flesh, and flesh serves the law of sin, and brings forth fruit unto death, all in favour of a doctrine that has zero support in the Bible, with not one verse articulating what they prefer over what is actually said. In fact they routinely contradict and deny what is explicitly stated, and really seem unable to stop ascribing to the unregenerated man qualities, characteristics, and abilities that only the regenerated person is in possession of.
Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge.
Ikr? Well, these Pelagian heretics and free willers make a habit of not just contradicting and denying whatThat can't be right! Sounds like supernatural power -- the kind of power God used when
he created the universe. How can anyone resist that power? So, Paul has to be wrong.
Scripture explicitly articulates, they take it upon themselves to rewrite the very words of Jesus Christ Himself,
and claim that things He and Paul taught came from Calvin, among other post-Biblical sources. Then when
others uphold the Biblical truths they do not like, they simply whip out their pejorative and ta-da!
B
Believer08
Guest
Magenta, you are free to believe that.That is a logical fallacy and ignores what Scripture actually says. Man does have
volition and makes choices, but this does not equate to having a will that is free.
People making mundane choices does not in any way address what the Bible teaches about man's will being enslaved to sin, blinded to the truth, unable to hear, incapable of submitting to God, a lover of darkness, refusing to come into the light, hearing the gospel as foolishness, unable to receive or comprehend the spiritual things of God, to which he is opposed and to Whom he is hostile toward while under the power and influence of the devil, as is the whole world, out of which believers have been called. Thinking your will is free simply because you can choose what colour of socks to wear or what to have for lunch, or whether to do the right or wrong things, has no bearing on the eternal fate of your soul, and mixing it in with what the Bible teaches about the estate of fallen man is a distraction from the real issue.
This is the crux of the conversation, for it is out of man's nature that he makes choices, and it is with the heart that one believes... the free will proponents essentially assert that the incurably wicked heart of the natural/unregenerated man is free to choose to believe that which he is not only opposed to, but that which he can neither receive/accept nor comprehend. They have the man with zero wisdom acting wise to do God's will when Scripture says that man cannot. And their idea of wisdom is that person choosing to believe what they hear as foolishness. They reject what Jesus said about it being impossible for a bad tree to bring forth good fruit, and there are none good, no, not one! But they reject a whole slew of Scriptures from beginning to end of the Bible, such as nothing good lives in man's flesh, and flesh serves the law of sin, and brings forth fruit unto death, all in favour of a doctrine that has zero support in the Bible, with not one verse articulating what they prefer over what is actually said. In fact they routinely contradict and deny what is explicitly stated, and really seem unable to stop ascribing to the unregenerated man qualities, characteristics, and abilities that only the regenerated person is in possession of.
Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge.
Magenta, you can freely will to believe that.That is a logical fallacy and ignores what Scripture actually says. Man does have
volition and makes choices, but this does not equate to having a will that is free.
People making mundane choices does not in any way address what the Bible teaches about man's will being enslaved to sin, blinded to the truth, unable to hear, incapable of submitting to God, a lover of darkness, refusing to come into the light, hearing the gospel as foolishness, unable to receive or comprehend the spiritual things of God, to which he is opposed and to Whom he is hostile toward while under the power and influence of the devil, as is the whole world, out of which believers have been called. Thinking your will is free simply because you can choose what colour of socks to wear or what to have for lunch, or whether to do the right or wrong things, has no bearing on the eternal fate of your soul, and mixing it in with what the Bible teaches about the estate of fallen man is a distraction from the real issue.
This is the crux of the conversation, for it is out of man's nature that he makes choices, and it is with the heart that one believes... the free will proponents essentially assert that the incurably wicked heart of the natural/unregenerated man is free to choose to believe that which he is not only opposed to, but that which he can neither receive/accept nor comprehend. They have the man with zero wisdom acting wise to do God's will when Scripture says that man cannot. And their idea of wisdom is that person choosing to believe what they hear as foolishness. They reject what Jesus said about it being impossible for a bad tree to bring forth good fruit, and there are none good, no, not one! But they reject a whole slew of Scriptures from beginning to end of the Bible, such as nothing good lives in man's flesh, and flesh serves the law of sin, and brings forth fruit unto death, all in favour of a doctrine that has zero support in the Bible, with not one verse articulating what they prefer over what is actually said. In fact they routinely contradict and deny what is explicitly stated, and really seem unable to stop ascribing to the unregenerated man qualities, characteristics, and abilities that only the regenerated person is in possession of.
Colossians 2 v 8, Romans 16 v 18, Romans 10 v 2, Proverbs 19 v 2a ~ See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Zeal is no good without knowledge.
Just as you are free to not believe all the Scripture references I posted. And there were a LOT.
I hope you can come up with something better than logical fallacies in the future.
B
Believer08
Guest
B
Believer08
Guest
Nope only God can enable free will m
Freedom of thought however is another story m
It's like waking up of a morning, you either get up or go back to sleep m.
More often than not thought your own thoughts will tell you to go back to sleep m, because your own will is lazy,
It takes a few alarm calls from the will of the bells to work m
It would be helpful if you used Biblical words. For instance, God's Word says man is without excuse. Surely this lends itself strongly to the idea that people are not puppets. There is also the matter that, claiming if free will does not exist then people are puppets, is a fallacy, since there are other options, which you ignore, probably so you can make the idea of man not having a will that is free look stupid, even though free will is nowhere taught in the Bible in relation to salvation, and Scripture plainly says man is a slave to sin. But you feel better saying such things.surely. I’m thankful I’m not a puppet.
The free will camp assumes, with no supporting text and contrary to many verses that evidence the opposite, that the man of flesh is free to choose, and will believe, that which he can neither receive nor comprehend, and to which he is inherently opposed with his uncircumcised heart of stone. There is simply no getting around the fact that this is the core of their belief, and it flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches about the natural man who is a slave to sin and lover of darkness refusing to come into the light, blinded to truth and under the power and influence of Satan: he serves the law of sin which brings forth fruit unto death, not life. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, his incurably wicked heart cannot be changed. He hates God, rejects the light, and hears the gospel message as foolishness. Praise the Lord if He has set you free!
God gives me the grace and then I use my free will to believe.Nope only God can enable free will m
Freedom of thought however is another story m
It's like waking up of a morning, you either get up or go back to sleep m.
More often than not thought your own thoughts will tell you to go back to sleep m, because your own will is lazy,
It takes a few alarm calls from the will of the bells to work m
1 Samuel 2 v 7-9 ~ The LORD sends poverty and wealth; He humbles and He exalts. He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap. He seats them among princes and bestows on them a throne of honor. For the foundations of the earth are the LORD’s, and upon them He has set the world. He guards the steps of His faithful ones, but the wicked perish in darkness; for by his own strength shall no man prevail.
yes, God does chasten us and as we heed His training we experience the peaceable fruit of righteousness.I've already told you Gods word has disciplined me my whole life.
And in my life I'm always receiving acts of kindness, in my life, to which I'm always thankful for, I've endured hardships and the lord has been there for me
For me asking God what is necessary in my life everyday is Enough for me,.as I see it either I grow spiritualy by his the daily renewing of my mind and communion with the lord, or I lose ground.
all scripture is useful for correcting teaching and even rebuking in my eyes
And God does chasten the ones he loves to, there's times when when I haven't had the feeling of inner peace in my heart, because of act I should of been doing, and it's not been until I've actually repented that the peace has returnrs.to my heart. To me not having his strong feelings of will in my heart to control myself is punishment enough for.
Not feeling the joys of his strength and inner peace.is punishment for me. Along with the daily bright ideas he gives me to please him.
Gods kindness to me is a means to by which he guides me disciplines me and trains me
But his disaplin which may not be pleasant at first lead me to righteousness,
I remember I use to tremble with fear, when pinching an apple as a little boy, and since then I've never done it since.
For me its a blessing to be have been disciplined by God through his active word in my heart and I've loved every moment of God words guiding me and controlling my thoughts.
Like how he stops me in my tracks learning to be patient,..how he stops me from being unkind how he helps me to patience
.it wasn't easy at first,. But God saw to it,
When I listen to his advice and accept his discipline I end up becoming wise and staying out of trouble and stupid arguments,.and I don't make enemies for myself
When I seek him and ask what I can do for him today he tells what acts of kindness I will recieve the next day and it happens.
It happens with my family with my neighbours with my friends, whom we are all Christian, we all live for each other in the lord.
In Hebrews 12:11 ...
Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
The word "chastening" is translated from the Greek word paideía which means instruction that trains someone to reach full development (maturity) – HELPS word-studies.
So, our Heavenly Father chastens us ... He trains us in order that we may mature and reach full development. The other day, when we were discussing training vs controlling ... I prefer to use the word "training" because that is the word God uses as He works within the born again believer in bringing the believer to maturity in the Lord Jesus Christ.
And God does desire that we submit our whole hearts to Him ... not hold back anything from Him. We have a tendency to hold back from Him and when we do, God lovingly guides us and patiently waits for us to tire of withholding from Him. Then when we finally let go of that which hinders us from Him, we experience a closer relationship with Him.
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2 Corinthians 4 verses 3-4 ~ 2 Corinthians 4 verse 4 ~ Even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, Who is the image of God.
actually, it is death that passed upon all men because all sin:
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned
The "sin" of Adam and Eve did not pass to their descendants ... all die because all sin and the wages of sin is death.
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Man is born in transgression and sin (Psalm 51 verse 5, 58 verse 3), dead in transgressions (Ephesians 2 verse 5), his heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure (Jeremiah 17 verse 9), held captive by a love for sin (John 3 verse 19; John 8 verse 34), so that he will not seek God (Romans 3 verses 10-11), because he loves the darkness (John 3 verse 19), and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2 verse 14), nor can he change himself (Jeremiah 13 verse 23). He suppresses the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1 verse 18) and continues to willfully live in sin because he is totally depraved; this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14 verse 12); they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1 verse 18), and their mind is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. (Romans 8 verse 7).