So, according to you, those Jesus chose before the foundation of the world don't have to do anything at all to be saved, right?
Salvation: A doctrinal dilemma
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I assume that to be a negative reply and might mean you're still under the law of works not grace.
They are not waging war in that battle between the flesh and the Spirit?
They do not need to persevere because they are chosen?
Nor do they need to pray without ceasing as Paul instructs us to pray?
They must endure persecution?
I think you missed something.
Nope, didn't miss anything.
Yeah, those things you mentioned above do not save anyone nor can they keep anyone saved. Christ is the Savior - salvation is by Him alone and by what He accomplished, not by anything that we may or may not do, that is why He alone wears the title of Savior and we don't. There are many things God instructs those saved as true Christians to do, but we are to do them without trying to use them to earn or keep our salvation.
Hmmm, okay, well then, guess you don't believe in Christ as the Savior - very odd indeed for a "Christian".
Ph'p 2:2 is not about having exactly the same interpretation of scripture on every point. It is about having the same kind of mind that Christ had in giving up status in order to come alongside and identify with others in their brokenness and distress, even to the point of being killed, without resisting, by the people He came to help.
2 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Where did I mention earning our salvation?
I was talking about living as a Christian according to the flesh.
If you receive a pardon from prison then you are required to behave yourself.
Do you believe that?
Depends what you mean by "required" - not to become saved nor to remain saved. So, you are in agreement with me that salvation comes only as a gift from God through Jesus Christ, given freely to those that He chose for it?
I think you may be confused.
Yes, salvation is a free gift given to those that believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus.
That is doctrine number one.
Then you said; 'given freely to those that He chose for it?'.
This is where we must be very careful.
I observe two primary groups of people the Jews and the Gentiles in the scripture.
When God chose covenant Israel, at that time, the Gentiles never knew God.
The Gentiles were foreign to the commonwealth of Israel.
Jesus was only sent to the Jews and the apostles were all Jews.
When God abolished that former covenant with Israel God then turned to the Gentiles.
The Jews are now hardened to the gospel but the Gentiles are now drawn to Jesus.
So in this reading of the N.T the latter group is now chosen.
Romans 11:11
I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression
salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.
Can you identify these two groups?
Yeah, sure. One more question for you: so how do you know that you are truely one of the chosen from the foundation of the world? Is it your gut that tells you? Does God whisper in your ear? Do toy just somehow know, is everyone on this board one of the chosen? How exactly do you know?
if Acts 10:43 says you have remission of sins as soon as you believe, then that contradicts Acts 2:38 that says you have remission of sins when you are baptized; and it also contradicts Acts 22:16 that says baptism “washes away sins;” and also contradicts 1 Peter 3:21 that says baptism saves you, because you can’t be saved and still have your sins; and why would he say baptism saves you if you are already saved at the point of faith; and it contradicts Mark 16:16 that puts salvation AFTER BAPTISM. And so, in order to protect your erroneous doctrine of faith only, you 1) are forced to go into long, grammatical explanations to get around, try to explain away, what the Holy Spirit has plainly said; 2) redefine words like “faith” to mean “trust” ; 3) re-arrange the order of acts like faith and repentance and 4) make up your own definitions of things like faith and repentance are the same thing or happen at the same time. And 5) call in question the inspiration of the text, casting doubt on the scripture, hoping to discredit the message it says because it directly refutes your faith only doctrine. ( Mark 16:16)
“But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be CORRUPTED from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ.” 2 Corinthians 11:3. This describes it perfectly. According to your answers, there is absolutely no way a simple, person today, with very little education could possibly understand what the Holy Spirit is saying in such scriptures as in Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, James 2:14-24, 1 Peter 3:21, and a host of others. They would have to know the sentence construction, the intricacies of the English language, and the Greek language, definitions of words and have a knowledge of the manuscripts and know what “scholars” say in order to understand what the verse really means. In other words, you can not just simply read Acts 2:38 and believe what is really written there. I know it says baptism is for the remission of sins, but that’s not really what it’s saying. You can’t really believe 1 Peter 3:21 when it says baptism saves you. It’s really not saying that at all. And you can’t trust Mark 16:16, but of course a simple, ordinary person, unfamiliar with the manuscripts and what “scholars” say would have no way of knowing that.
But then you read 2 Cor. 11:3. And God reassures you that His scriptures are simple. Just believe what it says. You don’t have to have help in understanding these plain, “easy to understand” scriptures. They mean exactly what they say. And any effort by men to change what they say, is an effort by Satan to “corrupt your mind.”
In believing fully and completely believing/trusting that Christ is Savior and man is not. You don't believe that He is?
The two groups are: 1) those chosen for salvation from before the foundation of the world; and 2) those who were not chosen. Therefore, as pertaining to salvation, there is neither Jew, Gentile, Greek, etc. And it is impossible that anyone can change groups
from one to the other.
@DJT_47
Wasn't fully awake. I should have said
In fully and completely believing/trusting only in Christ as the Savior, and not man. You don't believe that He is?
Acts 10:43 does say whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins and in verse 45, we see these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit and in verse 47, Peter asks, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” If your pet verses (Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; 1 Peter 3:21; Mark 16:16) mean that water baptism is the cause of receiving remission of sins and that baptism literally washes away sins and that baptism literally saves us and that salvation comes after baptism, then that contradicts Acts 10:43-47, along with Acts 13:38,39; 26:18; Romans 3:24-26 etc.. In regard to Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.
In Acts 10:43, we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit -Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.
So, the only Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17-18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*
In regard to Acts 22:16, Christ literally washed us from our sins in His blood. (Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14; Revelation 1:5) Baptism, therefore, is only the figure of that literal washing. It is in this sense that believers in Christ "wash away sins" in baptism. It manifests in ceremony that which really does procure salvation.
Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/03/acts-2216-baptism-essential-for.html
In regard to 1 Peter 3:21, Peter goes on to explain in what "sense" that baptism saves us -- (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So, baptism saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, only the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.
In regard to Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."
If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I don't teach "faith only" per James 2:24, which is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. (James 2:14) I teach salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone, hence, not of works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Faith is accounted as righteousness/God imputes righteousness apart from works. (Romans 4:5-6) I'm not trying to get around anything. I properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. You distort and pervert passages of scripture in an effort to "patch together" your so-called gospel plan. Faith does involve trust. Lexical Summary - pistis: Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity. That is not redefining it. You basically redefine repentance as "moral self-reformation" and re-arrange the order by placing it "after" faith when I already showed you that believe, believe the gospel and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ precedes repentance. (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21) Repent (change your mind) new direction of this change of mind faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Two sides to the same coin. Are you ready to repent (change your mind) and place your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation? (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone still stands.
Oh, the irony. That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for you to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow you to place your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Your hands are full of your works (with a heavy emphasis on water baptism) and you will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.
CONTINUED..