Absolutely there is only one Gospel https://biblehub.com/galatians/1-8.htm the only reason people think there are two is in the way Matthew was treated when it was made Cannon.
There Are Not Two Gospels — Peter and Paul Preached the Same Message
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Absolutely there is only one Gospel https://biblehub.com/galatians/1-8.htm the only reason people think there are two is in the way Matthew was treated when it was made Cannon.
Perfectly stated ! Amen
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”
Titus 2:11-14 KJV
Exactly, brother — I’m glad we agree there’s only one gospel.
Whatever may have happened in the process of canon formation, the message God preserved through the Scriptures is consistent and clear: salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.
“The word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.” — 1 Peter 1:25
That same unchanging gospel still saves today — the good news of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Grace and peace always.
True — the gospel certainly includes more than personal salvation, because it reveals God’s entire redemptive plan: Christ’s life, death, resurrection, reign, and coming kingdom.
But the center of it all is still the message Paul defined in 1 Corinthians 15:1–4 —
“Christ died for our sins… was buried… and rose again the third day.”
That’s the heartbeat of the good news — the part that actually saves (Romans 1:16). Everything else — the kingdom, new creation, eternal life — flows out of that finished work.
So yes, the gospel is broad in scope, but its foundation is unchanging: Jesus Christ crucified and risen for our redemption.
John 14:6 (KJV):
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
It means:
- The Way — Jesus is the only path to God.
- The Truth — He reveals who God truly is.
- The Life — He alone gives eternal life.
Grace and peace, always.
“In short, salvation and access to God come only through Christ.”
Right. So ….
“Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.”
Hosea 13:4 KJV
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
Mark 1:1 KJV
“For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.”
Luke 2:11 KJV
“And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.”
1 John 4:14
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
John 3:16-17 KJV
“He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”
1 John 5:10-13
Notice there’s nothing at all mentioned about jesus dying and being raised up again the third day in all of these verses but it’s all really important and essential information as well as jesus dying and being raised up again is also essential to our faith ?
His death for our sins and resurrection for our justification is essential and Very important and the culminating victorious point of the gospel and the atonement for sinners sins which is what saved the from thier sins indeed…. But eho the person tbat siffered and died on the cross for our sins is and what he taught and promised in his words in the gospel also are essential parts of our faith
Paul’s message has always been promised by the lord well before jesus came forth to die for sins was Gods promise of the messiah
“Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.”
Isaiah 53:10-11
at he apostles like Paul and Peter see we’re preaching on the other side of that after it’s been fulfilled
“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
Isaiah 53:5-6
Peter after jesus died for sin
“who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.”
1 Peter 2:24-25
See that message about jesus death and his resurrection has always been part of gods word towards mankind
The thing is so has all the other stuff like this
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
John 5:28-29 KJV
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
Romans 14:10-13 KJV
Remember what his judgement is n the gospel about sinners judging other sinners ? That’s what Paul’s teaching also about judgement day
“Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:1-9, 11
James teaches the same concept as Jesus and the apostles there
“For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
James 2:13 KJV
if we only read that part of Paul’s writing it seems like that’s all there is but really he makes most of what he’s writing about easentail information it just depends on what we’re reading heres many points
“Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.”
Isaiah 43:10-11
“the center of it all is still the message Paul defined in 1 Corinthians 15:1–4 —
“Christ died for our sins… was buried… and rose again the third day.”
That’s like saying “ the center of the entire law of Moses is the sin sacrifice and scapegoat who Carries away thier sins alive “
certainly the first thing Paul preached to them was Jesus died for thier sins was buried and rose the third day (for our justification . ) and think about that part of the gospel without Jesus dying as the atonement for our sins , we couldn’t be forgiven for our sins . And if he hadn’t risen from the dead having overcome the grave and death we couldn’t be raised up again by him , he would still be dead . So that message is definately essential but there’s a lot of essentials
Summary:
The Gospel of the Kingdom was preached while Israel was still under the Law — so circumcision continued.
The Gospel of Grace came after the cross — when Jesus fulfilled the Law, making circumcision no longer required.
Grace and Peace
Summary:
In short:
- The Gospel of the Kingdom was proclaimed while Israel was still under the Law. During that period, circumcision and other covenant signs were still observed.
- After the cross and resurrection, Jesus fulfilled the Law completely (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:24–25).
- From that point forward, the Gospel of Grace extended to both Jew and Gentile alike — with no distinction in how anyone is saved. Salvation is now by grace through faith in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8–9), apart from the works of the Law or rituals like circumcision.
Yes — after the crucifixion, the Gospel of Grace envelops both Jew and Gentile into one body, the Church.
“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles.” — 1 Corinthians 12:13
the message of faith and repentance was the same, but the covenantal setting was different.
Before the cross, Israel was still under the Law (Galatians 4:4–5). The Gospel of the Kingdom called them to faith in their Messiah, but they were still bound to the Mosaic system — circumcision, temple worship, and sacrifices — until the ultimate sacrifice was offered:
“For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.” — Hebrews 10:4“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.” — Hebrews 10:12
When Jesus died and rose again, the Law was fulfilled and completed in Him (Matthew 5:17; Romans 10:4). That’s when the Gospel of Grace was fully revealed — salvation by faith in Christ apart from the works of the Law, now offered equally to Jew and Gentile (Ephesians 2:14–16; Galatians 3:28).
In short:
The message of salvation has always been by faith in God’s promise.
It’s one gospel revealed in two phases of God’s redemptive plan — not two different messages of salvation.
it’s not two gospels.
Before the cross, the same message of faith pointed forward to what Christ would accomplish. After the cross, that same message points back to what He already accomplished.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith…” — Ephesians 2:8“For what the law could not do… God sending his own Son… condemned sin in the flesh.” — Romans 8:3
Under the Law, believers trusted God’s promise of redemption — though the sacrifice hadn’t yet been made. Once Jesus became the Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world (John 1:29), that promise was fulfilled, and the Law’s purpose was completed (Galatians 3:24–25).
So yes — the people before the cross were still under the Law, but the saving message was always centered on faith in God’s provision, now fully revealed through Christ.
Grace and Peace
When you speak you speak as what you say is true, but only back up some of it with HIS word.
It's best to keep HIS word in context and back up ALL OF WHAT you say with HIS word.
Sorry, but to some it may have but circumcision was no longer a part of the covenant of GOD!!!
OT laws WERE DONE, now we have NT laws.
Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Don't tell me FAITH ALONE, IT'S A LIE FROM HELL.
Do you know you will be responsible for EVERY word out of your mouth?
How to be reborn.
FAITH AND OBEDIENCE WAS AND IS A PART OF OT AND NT.
OT GOD made a covenant with HIS people the Jews only.
OT, They had to be circumcise.
Genesis 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
They had to offer up a burnt offing,
Leviticus 12:6 And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest:
OT stopped after JEUS ascended the second time in Acts 1.
NT started in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost and remains today.
Nicodemus came to JESUS at night,
John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
JESUS said WE HAVE TO BE BORN OF WATER AND OF SPIRIT.
JESUS clarifying the future.
Luke,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
THE START OF NT REBIRTH.
JESUS told HIS DISCIPLES to wait.
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
THEY waited and this happened,
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
PETER explains what happens when someone is filled.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
JESUS explains what happens when someone is filled.
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
THE FIRST MESSAGE that JESUS PROMISED to be preached,
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
NOTICE Acts 2:38-39 is the same as what JESUS said in John 3:5?
Now to keep things in context.
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John JESUS (GOD) walked this earth with us.
The book of Acts the FOUNDATION of being reborn as churches were build on it.
ALL BOOKS AFTER THAT were to CHURCHES NOT THE UNSAVED.
YOU WILL NOT FIND ONE PLACE WHERE THERE ARE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO BE REBORN AFTER THE BOOK OF ACTS.
Have you been baptized in JESUS name to remove your sins?
IF NOT according to JESUS, YOU ARE DAMNED. Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Has JESUS FILLED YOU with the Holy Ghost like HE did HIS DISCIPLES in Acts 2:4???
IF NOT YOU ARE NONE OF HIS,
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
As you can see in HIS word, you need more that faith you need to OBEY HIM,
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
James,
2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
NOW if you show me where faith removes our sins and fills us with the Holy Ghost so we can be saved or reborn and I will believe YOU not HIS WORD.
Notice, ALL SCRIPTURE except me questing or challenging you.
There is one gospel, and one way to be reborn.
Here are a few places where the teachings of Peter echo those of Paul:
TOP #41: Christians are God’s elect, chosen according to divine foreknowledge. [1PT 1:1-2&20 = RM 8:28-30] Jesus (in MT 24:22-31, TOJ #138) also referred to his disciples as elect.
TOP #111: Christians are given new birth into a living hope because of Christ’s resurrection. [1PT 1:3&21 = 1CR 15:12-20] Being born again is TOJ #168.
TOP #145: Christians have an inheritance kept in heaven that will be revealed in the last time. [1PT 1:4-9 = EPH 1:13-14, 5:15, COL 1:12, 3:24]
TOP #179: Through faith Christians are shielded or kept safe during earthly grief and trials by God’s power until the end. [1PT 1:5-6 = EPH 6:10-17]
TOP #83: Like gold that is purified by fire, faith is proved to be genuine as it endures trials. [1PT 1:6-7 = 1CR 3:12-15]
TOP #19: God judges impartially or without showing favoritism. [1PT 1:17 = RM 2:11] In TOP #221 God is described as just.
TOP #135: Christians should love one another. [1PT 1:22 = GL 5:6&14] Enough said.
TOP #13: Christians should rid themselves of every kind of sin, including malice and deceit. [1PT 2:1 = RM 1:29] Jesus taught this truth in MK 7:20-23 (TOJ #76).
TOP #81: New Christians should crave pure spiritual milk. [1PT 2:2 = 1CR 3:2]
TOP #153: Christians comprise a spiritual edifice built on Christ as the cornerstone and capstone. [1PT 2:4-8 = EPH 2:18-20]
TOP #167: Those who reject Christ are bound for a fall and destined to damnation. [1PT 2:8 = PHP 3:18-19, EPH 5:5-6] What Peter implied, Paul specified.
TOP #151: Gentiles are included in God’s plan of salvation. [1PT 2:10 = EPH 2:11-3:6] This truth was described as a mystery in TOP #144.
TOP #179: Sinful desires war against souls in a spiritual struggle. [1PT 2:11 = EPH 6:10-17] Such desires are described as the devil’s schemes by Paul.
TOP #66: Submit to governmental authorities, kings or governors who are sent by God to punish wrongdoers and commend those who do right. [1PT 2:13-14 & 17 = RM 13:1-5]
TOP #136: Freedom in Christ does not mean having a license to sin. [1PT 2:16 = GL 5:13]
TOP #177: Slaves should submit to masters, considering their suffering to be commendable as following the example of Christ. [1PT 2:18-21 = EPH 6:5, COL 3:22, etc.]
TOP #173: Wives should be submissive to husbands, and husbands should in the same way be considerate and respect wives. [1PT3:1&5b-8 = EPH 5:21-33, COL 3:18-19]
TOP #64: Live in harmony. [1PT 3:8-9 = RM 12:16-17] This involves being humble rather than seeking revenge.
TOP #147: Christ is ruling in heaven at God’s right hand. [1Pet. 3:22 = Eph. 1:18-23, Heb. 1:3]
The death and resurrection of Christ remain the central core of the gospel, from which everything else flows.
Absolutely — you’re right, there’s so much depth in the gospel message.
It includes who Jesus is, what He taught, His miracles, His kingdom, His judgment, and His promises. All of it matters.
But the centerpiece — the truth everything else depends on — is still what Paul called “the gospel… by which ye are saved” (1 Cor. 15:1-4):
“Christ died for our sins… was buried… and rose again the third day.”
Everything else — His teachings, His miracles, His return, and His judgment — has power and meaning because of that finished work. Without the cross and the resurrection, none of the rest could save.
So yes, the gospel is rich and far-reaching, but its heart is always Jesus Christ crucified and risen.
Grace and peace in Him.
OUCH’s claim that I “didn’t back it all up with Scripture” is simply a deflection — not a fair critique.
My post was fully anchored in the Word. Anyone can go back and read it for themselves. Those who’ve followed my posts know I consistently support every point with clear and abundant Scripture.
Brother, I appreciate your passion for God’s Word — we both desire truth, not opinions.
But respectfully, every statement I made was grounded in Scripture and context.
Let’s review:
- Law fulfilled in Christ
- Matthew 5:17 — “I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”
- Romans 10:4 — “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”
- Faith, not circumcision or works, brings righteousness
- Romans 4:9–11 — Abraham’s faith was counted for righteousness before circumcision.
- Galatians 5:6 — “In Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
- The new covenant began with Christ’s finished work
- Hebrews 9:15–17 — “A testament is of force after men are dead.”
- The cross is where the Old Covenant ended and the New began, not merely at Pentecost.
- Salvation by grace through faith, not by ritual
- Ephesians 2:8–9 — “By grace are ye saved through faith… not of works.”
- Titus 3:5 — “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us.”
So when I say salvation is by faith in Christ alone, I’m not denying obedience — I’m affirming the source of righteousness.
Obedience follows faith; it does not produce salvation. (James 2 confirms that genuine faith always bears fruit.)
Clarifying “Born of Water and Spirit”
John 3:5 points to spiritual birth — not baptismal regeneration.
Jesus explained it in verse 6: “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
He was contrasting natural birth (“water” — physical) with supernatural birth (Spirit).
The new birth comes through the Word and the Spirit — see 1 Peter 1:23 and Titus 3:5.
Peter’s sermon in Acts 2:38 was the first gospel call under the New Covenant, but even there, salvation hinged on repentance and faith in Jesus Christ — not the ritual act itself. The outward baptism followed belief, as shown later in Acts 10:44–48, where the Spirit fell before baptism.
Scripture harmonizes perfectly when we let all of it speak:
Faith saves (Ephesians 2:8–9), but true faith obeys (John 14:15).
Grace doesn’t cancel obedience — it produces it (Romans 6:14–18).
Let’s keep reasoning together in love, with the Word as our authority — all of it, rightly divided (2 Timothy 2:15).
Grace and Peace.
I said you don't back up, ALL of what you say.
You putting your twist on things is the problem.
You twist saying JESUS is referring to natural birth is not true.
Look at verse 6 WHAT IS NATURAL IS NATURAL, WHAT IS SPRITURAL IS SPIRITUAL.
DID YOU NOTICE THE WORD REBORN????
How can you be REBORN if not born naturally?
JESUS was speaking to Nicodemus, was Nicodemus born naturally already?
If not born naturally YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO READ HIS WORD.
In Acts 10 SO WHAT the Holy GHost feel on them first THAT DOES NOT PROVE they were reborn BEFORE they were baptized.
It DOES prove and back up Acts 2:38 and John 3:5 WE NEED BOTH TO BE REBORN.
You want some harmonizing?
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
MEANING, if you don't believe you will parisah, since you do not believe you will not be baptized.
You forgot to replay to the most important questions.
Show me where faith removes our sins and fills us with the Holy Ghost.
Have you been baptized in JESUS name to remove your sins?
Has JESUS filled YOU with the Holy Ghost.
If you think the bible is not inspired then you can change it .
If the bible is inspired, then the Pauline's have 2 conflicting gospels written by 2 inspirations.
One inspiration guides us "into the true gospel"
....and Paul is inspired by that inspiration.
What is inspiring Peter, James, John, and Jesus to supposedly teach salvation via the law? Who is inspiring this supposed false gospel?
A second Holy Spirit?
cleverly inserting false doctrine shipwreck for unsuspecting believers??????
See the problem of the false hyperpauline doctrine.
But it gets worse.
Paul said: "if they're be anybody coming and preaching a different gospel than the one we showed you. Let him be accursed.
Then paul repeats that same curse
So what we have is, if Paul, peter, john and jesus are teaching people to get under the law, then paul just cursed all four of those people.
See the sick doctrine of hyperpaulines?
So did JESUS fill you with HIS spirit before or after you were baptized in JESUS name?
Brother, I appreciate your zeal for God’s Word — we both want truth, not opinion.
But respectfully, I didn’t “twist” anything. Every point I made was based on Scripture, in context.
Born of Water and Spirit – John 3:5
Jesus wasn’t teaching baptismal regeneration.
Nicodemus was thinking physically, so Jesus contrasted two kinds of birth:
“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” — John 3:6
The “water” refers to natural birth — the physical. The “Spirit” refers to the new birth that only God can give.
If “water” meant baptism, Jesus would be commanding a Christian ordinance before the cross or Pentecost — which isn’t possible.
Peter later said we are “born again… by the word of God” (1 Peter 1:23),
and Paul wrote that we are saved “by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Titus 3:5).
It’s the Spirit that cleanses, not the water.
Acts 10 — Cornelius
You said this doesn’t prove they were reborn before baptism, but Scripture says:
“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.” — Acts 10:44
Then Peter asked, “Can any man forbid water…?” (v. 47).
The order is clear: they believed, received the Spirit, and then were baptized — just as Ephesians 1:13 says.
Faith Brings Forgiveness and the Spirit
“Whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.” — Acts 10:43
“Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” — Galatians 3:2
Faith in Christ’s finished work saves; baptism follows as obedience and witness.
True faith always obeys, but obedience flows from salvation, not into it.
“We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works.” — Ephesians 2:10
I don’t twist Scripture, brother; I let all of it speak together.
“It is finished.” — John 19:30
Grace and Peace.
OUCH is shifting from Scripture to personal experience to trap me in a “gotcha” moment.
He’s no longer arguing about what the Bible teaches — he’s trying to make my personal testimony the test of truth. That’s a classic tactic used by oneness or baptismal regeneration advocates (often Acts 2:38–centric groups).
My personal experience isn’t the standard — the Word of God is.
The question isn’t when I was filled, but how Scripture says a person receives the Spirit.
The Bible says:
“After that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.” — Ephesians 1:13
“Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” — Galatians 3:2
That’s clear — the Spirit is given through faith in Christ, not through water.
Cornelius’ household in Acts 10:44–48 received the Spirit before baptism, proving God’s order:
faith → Spirit → obedience (baptism).
So rather than focusing on my story, let’s stay focused on what God’s Word says —
because His Word, not our experiences, defines truth.
Grace and Peace.
Paul’s clarification — “Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Cor 1:17). That’s hard to square with baptism being essential for salvation.
LOL, HEY FOKES WATCHING, LIGHTBEARER3 IS LOOKING FOR HELP.
Anyone else who don't follow the book of Acts or twist scriputre like he does can help him.
Did you know when we are born we are born in sin????
I guess you will never undstand the word REBORN means.
If you was not born, you would not be able to READ HIS WORD.
JESUS is wrong and your right.
So the water means spirit, why did HE say water AND spirit and not spirit and spirit?
So are you twisting scripture or changing it?
Water baptism didn't start UNTIL AFTER PENTECOST, that is why he wan't commanding anyone before it.
So you are saying JESUS has not filled you, and you have not been baptized in JESUS name.
And your telling me to stay focused!
If you were seeking like Cornelius JESUS will open your eyes like HE did his and send you someone to tell you how to be reborn.
Or did HE and your not like Cornelius?
If you had eyes to see, you would see what happen in Acts 10 lines up with John 3:5 and Acts 2:38-39.
What does that have to do with anything??
No it's really not, Paul had his sins remittent when he got baptized in JESUS name.
Paul was baptizing 20 YEARS after the day of Pentecost, Acts 19.
SO HE DID BAPTIZE PEOPLE.
JESUS had John the baptist lead the way to righteousness for HIM.
JESUS also wasn't sent to baptize HE also was sent to preach.
IT'S THE ONLY WAY to get rid of our sins, why can't people just TRUST AND OBEY????
Satan's plan KEEP THEM OUT OF THE WATER, if they get in the water keep JESUS name out of it.
“Christ died for our sins… was buried… and rose again the third day.”
That’s what im talking about …:: isolating one thing Paul said and then amplifying it as more
if Jesus hadn’t been promised by God then born and lived his life without sin , nothing in this quote would have relevance
“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
1 Corinthians 15:3 KJV
if I don’t know who Jesus Christ is and I don’t know about his promises for everlasting life which are actually the foundation of and source of the gospel as his words always are the source for mankind , then the phrase “ Jesus died for our sins and rose again “ has no meaning or application to me . It’s a meaningless phrase without knowing Jesus presented fully in the gospel
its all the gospel. What Paul said in one place does t change what he and everyone else said in every other place
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; ( that’s where everything begins and ends in the living person of Jesus Christ everything comes from this place )
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
Mark 1:1, 14-15 KJV
“And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.”
Luke 4:17-19, 21, 43 KJV
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14 KJV
I’d say it matters what Jesus calls things more than any apostle who is a servant and witness of Christ and his gospel which is much more than onky his death and resurrection it’s also what he preached that sets free and gives life many miss that and never experience any of what he says
See my point is before he ever died and rose
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
John 8:51 KJV
Jesus himself alive is the source of it all he already had the power to give life and raise the dead before “ the finished work of the cross “ what he did for us is essential and this is part of why he came to earth and what he did before the cross
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37 KJV
its also essentail to hear gods words of life and promise and salvation and judgement and not reject them
There’s a lot before the cross that comes …. Before the cross and it’s all the gospel paup was never saying “ nothing else is the gospel only this part “ that’s important and essential but it doesn’t change anything else and without the rest it couldn’t save anyone either it’s all the gospel
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50
we can’t reject Jesus words of life and judgement just as we can’t reject his death and resurrection that is our atonement but not a replacement for anything else it’s definately central but not moreso than the rest
everyone else including Paul in many places , say the gospel is many things because tbey are talking about that point at the time it doesn’t change the rest of the gospel is the whole witness we find in Matthew mark Luke and johns accounts of the gospel . Paul and all of them believed and preached every word of it.
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
should matter what Jesus said first Paul agrees with him
Paul teaches really great doctrine of baptism and why we get baptized but no one listens to it instead mostly the two camps argue of “ whether we need to get baptized or not “ bit no one wants to actually learn Paul’s doctrine of why we get baptized and how it applies to us and what freedom it can lead to for us as well remitting sins dominion over us ……..
its near impossible here to ever talk about what they actually taught about subjects like baptisms relevance in doctrine because it’s just always an argument about how we don’t need to do anything God said to do …it’s a “ self work “
Hardly anyone actually reads Paul instead most find a couple sentences and then explain why this means we don’t need to do anything like get baptized because it’s irrelevant .
his letters are amazing and marvelous but this happens as we are warned about
“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
2 Peter 3:15-18 KJV
Paul actually taught more about the workings and meaning of baptism for remission of sins in Jesus name than anyone else in the Bible in his epistles ! But instead “ we don’t need to get baptized for remission of our sins we said we believe and we’re saved now because we were chosen from creation “