The Testimony of God Exo31:18 Deut 4:13 is not the law of Moses Deut 31:24-26 and according to Jesus who is God Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13. It predates Moses according to what God said, if that counts Exo20:11
But believe as you wish
There Are Not Two Gospels — Peter and Paul Preached the Same Message
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But believe as you wish
See what you are saying here ? That’s what gives baptism in Jesus name for remission of sins …. It’s relevance and power . just what you are saying so perfectly about the central component being Jesus death for our sins and resurrection ( for our justification )
Jesus death, for our sins …. And his resurrection that core belief and then a teaching about baptism
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
….Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Romans 6:3-7, 11 KJV
The doctrine always involves jesus and it’s the very thing that makes the doctrine important . Another section about baptism and jesus death and resurrection
“And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism,
wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
Colossians 2:10-13
see paul is explaining real deep spiritual truths about baptism in jesus name to people who had already been baptized in jesus name for remission of sins.
Note how he addresses them with this doctrine
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: “
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
Galatians 3:27 KJV
“ye are complete in him, ..in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, “ ( baptism in his name for remission of sins because we believe he died for our sins and rose to life again on our behalf leaving our sins in the grave )
Because we believe your very good point Jesus died and rose this gives baptism for remission of sins it’s power and effectiveness but only if we believe what’s being taught about it in those epistles to the church who had been baptized in Jesus name
often Paul was preaching to people who had already heard the gospel and been baptized by the time he’s writing his epistles.
Another example was Galatians 3 there
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:26-29 KJV
early Christian’s wouldn’t have refused baptism , it was a common practice in thier culture at the time , to be baptized in someone’s name who you followed as a rabbi or teacher even the Roman’s did it with some charismatic philosophers .
today if you say pretty much anywhere on earth “ get baptized “ most people will associate that with Christianity and faith in Jesus Christ. But in those days it was common practice for rabbis and teachers or philosophers to have followers who proclaimed their faith in the person by name . The first thing Paul did was get baptized and also another example
“Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.”
1 Corinthians 1:13-17
The first thing Peter did after he was filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak as the spirit gave him utterance was preach a short summary of the gospel and then tell them when they asked what to do “. Repent and be baptized in Jesus name for remission of sins you shall receive the spirit …for the promise is to all the lord shall call “
The thing is we shouldn’t look at baptism as “ is it absolutely necassary ?” But if we look at what the apostles teach the church that it means for them then there’s no reason to not get baptized unless it’s disbelief . Same thing with communion Jesus death and resurrection gives it its value and meaning his body and blood given for us .
“These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.”
Deuteronomy 29:1 KJV
“And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.”
Exodus 24:7-8 KJV
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.”
Deuteronomy 31:16-18
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
Jeremiah 31:31-32 KJV
“The law and the prophets were until John:
since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
“For the law was given by Moses,
but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
John 1:17 KJV
“And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.”
Mark 10:2-5 KJV
It’s called the law of Moses because he was the mediator between God and the children of Israel while he was alive and he received the law from God on the Mount and brought it to the people of the promise , the children of Israel. He also made a lot of the judgements in the law he was ordained of God to do that and mediate and even at times he intercedes for them when they have done evil angered God and provoked his wrath . Moses would intercede with the lord and end up saving most of them
The law of Christ is ….his word in the gospel , his blood shed for sin in the gospel , his body broken for us all in the gospel … the bread of life .
The law of Moses is everything Moses commanded the ancient Israelites in the desert when they continually rebelled against God and were provoking his anger and wrath . It’s animal blood shed as sacrifice on a man made altar , in a man made building by a priest who’s also a sinner …
contrarily . The gospel is Jesus word , jesus sacrifice his bloodshed and body , jesus is the high priest , he is the intercessor at Gods right hand ,who lives forever to make intercession for those who believe and jesus is the one mediator between God and man.
That’s a well-articulated and Scripture-rich connection — you’re absolutely right that baptism portrays our identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Romans 6 and Colossians 2 beautifully show that picture of dying to sin and rising to new life.
But notice how Paul frames it:
He’s writing to believers who had already trusted in Christ and then expressed that faith through baptism. The spiritual reality — being “dead to sin and alive unto God” — comes through faith in Christ’s finished work; baptism is the outward confession of that inward faith.
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:26)
That’s why Peter says,
“Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.” (1 Peter 3:21)
So yes — baptism’s meaning and power flow directly from Jesus’ death and resurrection. It is a symbolic act of obedience that proclaims the gospel, not a sacrament that imparts grace. The same is true of the Lord’s Supper, which is a memorial of His sacrifice — not a literal transformation of the elements into His body and blood.
The Lord’s Supper — What It Is (and Isn’t)
Communion is a beautiful and solemn remembrance of Christ’s finished work — but not a ritual that re-sacrifices Him or transforms elements into His literal body and blood.
When Jesus said,
“This is my body… this is my blood” (Luke 22:19–20),
He was speaking symbolically, just as He often did —
“I am the door” (John 10:9)
“I am the vine” (John 15:5)
He was speaking symbolically, just as He often did —
“I am the door” (John 10:9)
“I am the vine” (John 15:5)
He wasn’t a literal door or vine — those were vivid pictures to teach spiritual truth. In the same way, the bread and cup are symbols that point us to the once-for-all sacrifice of Calvary.
Scripture Emphasizes Remembrance, Not Re-sacrifice
Paul writes:
“This do in remembrance of me.” (1 Cor. 11:24-25)
The purpose is to remember — not to re-offer. Christ’s sacrifice was finished forever:
“By one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” (Heb. 10:14)
“It is finished.” (John 19:30)
“It is finished.” (John 19:30)
To claim that the bread and wine become His literal flesh and blood contradicts those verses and suggests an ongoing sacrifice — something Scripture flatly denies.
Communion’s True Meaning
- It is a proclamation: “Ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.” (1 Cor. 11:26)
- It is a memorial of His broken body and shed blood.
- It is a fellowship meal that unites believers in gratitude for grace already received.
- It is not a means of obtaining forgiveness, but a way of expressing thanksgiving for forgiveness already granted.
Why Transubstantiation Is Not Scriptural
The idea that the elements literally become Christ’s body and blood came centuries later through human tradition, not apostolic teaching.
It contradicts:
- Hebrews 9:28 — “So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”
- John 6:63 — “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing… the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
Jesus made clear that His words about “eating His flesh” were spiritual, not literal.
In Summary
Communion is a remembrance, not a ritual transformation.
It looks back to the Cross, proclaims the Gospel, and anticipates His return — all grounded in the truth that the sacrifice is finished once for all.
Grace and peace in Christ, our perfect and eternal Redeemer.
A covenant is an agreement, God made individual covenants before He made a national covenant with Israel. Why the one with Israel was so unique. But it doesn't change the fact God's laws started before when the agreements were made. You see this clearly in Exo 16 prior to God writing the Ten Commandments
Exo 16: 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
27 Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. 28 And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?
So God's commandments started prior to the covenant being given. And not Whose commandments are they according to God?
Just as God said right in the Ten Commandments
Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
I know of not two Creations so obvious God is speaking of the Creation.
Where there is no law there is no sin. Rom4:15
There was sin in the world sadly from the garden, therefore God's law existed.
When it was sin for Cain to kill Abel, we see that law only in the Ten Commandments, the one god revealed when it started.
Why the Ten Commandments is God's Testimony Exo31:18 not mans and is also in His heavenly Temple under His mercy seat Exo25:21 Rev 11:19 Rev15:5
Good point!
The NT indicates that God's directions in the Gospel will never change through the end of history (Heb. 7:18-10:1).
Are you using AI? I have used it a couple times not for doctrine, and its in a very similar format and style. I was curious once to see what it would say about Col2:16 and was shocked at their results. I can share with you if you would like. If using AI I suggest asking it to use Bible only but nothing takes the place of prayerfully studying our Bibles under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
I understand why you’d ask — the style may look structured because I try to keep my thoughts clear and Scripture-centered.
But no, my posts aren’t generated by AI. I actually spend a lot of time prayerfully studying the Word, cross-referencing passages, and trying to write in a way that’s organized and easy to follow.
I agree completely — nothing replaces the illumination of the Holy Spirit. Tools can assist, but only the Spirit gives true understanding (1 Cor. 2:12–14).
My goal has always been to stay faithful to Scripture and let it interpret itself, not lean on man-made systems or outside voices.
Grace and peace — may we both keep seeking the truth in His Word.
This is from AI
In the Bible or theology, a covenant is a sacred promise or agreement between God and humans, such as the covenants with Noah, Abraham, or Moses.
Did the Ten Commandments Exist Prior to Mount Sinai?
According to the Bible, the Ten Commandments were first given in written form at Mount Sinai (Exodus 20). However, the moral principles contained in the commandments existed long before this event. Scripture reveals that individuals before Moses were held accountable for the same moral standards, indicating that God’s law was known in principle even before it was formally written.
1. The Ten Commandments Given at Mount Sinai
The Ten Commandments (Hebrew: Aseret HaDevarim, “Ten Words”) were written by God on stone tablets and given to Moses at Mount Sinai. This was the first explicit record of the commandments being written down and given to a nation.
Exodus 31:18 (KJV): 'And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.'
2. Moral Principles Existed Before Sinai
Although the Ten Commandments were not yet written, their moral principles were already recognized in the lives of people who lived before Moses. The following examples from Genesis show that the same moral standards applied:
Commandment
Pre-Sinai Example
No other gods
Jacob’s household had to put away strange gods (Genesis 35:2–4).
No idols
Rachel stole her father’s household idols (Genesis 31:19).
Don’t take God’s name in vain
Men began to call upon the name of the LORD (Genesis 4:26).
Keep the Sabbath
God blessed and sanctified the seventh day (Genesis 2:3).
Honor your father and mother
Ham dishonored Noah and was cursed (Genesis 9:22–25).
Don’t kill
Cain murdered Abel and was punished (Genesis 4:8–12).
Don’t commit adultery
Joseph refused Potiphar’s wife (Genesis 39:9).
Don’t steal
Theft condemned in Jacob’s dealings with Laban (Genesis 31:37–39).
Don’t bear false witness
Jacob deceived Isaac (Genesis 27:12).
Don’t covet
Eve coveted the forbidden fruit (Genesis 3:6).
3. New Testament Confirmation
The Apostle Paul confirmed that sin existed before the law, meaning moral standards were already in place. Romans 5:13 (KJV): 'For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.' Paul also noted that Gentiles showed 'the work of the law written in their hearts' (Romans 2:14–15), affirming that God’s moral law is universal and eternal.
4. Summary
The Ten Commandments as written law began at Mount Sinai, but the moral principles behind them existed from creation. They reflect God’s eternal character and righteousness. Thus, humanity has always been accountable to these standards, even before the tablets of stone that God wrote were given to Moses and the nation of Israel.
In the Bible or theology, a covenant is a sacred promise or agreement between God and humans, such as the covenants with Noah, Abraham, or Moses.
Did the Ten Commandments Exist Prior to Mount Sinai?
According to the Bible, the Ten Commandments were first given in written form at Mount Sinai (Exodus 20). However, the moral principles contained in the commandments existed long before this event. Scripture reveals that individuals before Moses were held accountable for the same moral standards, indicating that God’s law was known in principle even before it was formally written.
1. The Ten Commandments Given at Mount Sinai
The Ten Commandments (Hebrew: Aseret HaDevarim, “Ten Words”) were written by God on stone tablets and given to Moses at Mount Sinai. This was the first explicit record of the commandments being written down and given to a nation.
Exodus 31:18 (KJV): 'And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.'
2. Moral Principles Existed Before Sinai
Although the Ten Commandments were not yet written, their moral principles were already recognized in the lives of people who lived before Moses. The following examples from Genesis show that the same moral standards applied:
Commandment
Pre-Sinai Example
No other gods
Jacob’s household had to put away strange gods (Genesis 35:2–4).
No idols
Rachel stole her father’s household idols (Genesis 31:19).
Don’t take God’s name in vain
Men began to call upon the name of the LORD (Genesis 4:26).
Keep the Sabbath
God blessed and sanctified the seventh day (Genesis 2:3).
Honor your father and mother
Ham dishonored Noah and was cursed (Genesis 9:22–25).
Don’t kill
Cain murdered Abel and was punished (Genesis 4:8–12).
Don’t commit adultery
Joseph refused Potiphar’s wife (Genesis 39:9).
Don’t steal
Theft condemned in Jacob’s dealings with Laban (Genesis 31:37–39).
Don’t bear false witness
Jacob deceived Isaac (Genesis 27:12).
Don’t covet
Eve coveted the forbidden fruit (Genesis 3:6).
3. New Testament Confirmation
The Apostle Paul confirmed that sin existed before the law, meaning moral standards were already in place. Romans 5:13 (KJV): 'For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.' Paul also noted that Gentiles showed 'the work of the law written in their hearts' (Romans 2:14–15), affirming that God’s moral law is universal and eternal.
4. Summary
The Ten Commandments as written law began at Mount Sinai, but the moral principles behind them existed from creation. They reflect God’s eternal character and righteousness. Thus, humanity has always been accountable to these standards, even before the tablets of stone that God wrote were given to Moses and the nation of Israel.
Thank you! I appreciate the answer and nice to see some prayerful study in God's Word.
God bless!
....
....Yes, probably because they are logical applications of the logical Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
That’s a well-written summary, but it overlooks one key point — while moral awareness existed before Sinai, the Ten Commandments were given as part of a specific covenant with Israel, not as a timeless moral code for all humanity. Romans 2:14-15 shows that Gentiles have conscience, not tablets of stone. The law written on hearts points to the new covenant work of the Spirit, not the old Mosaic code. The principles of right and wrong existed, yes — but the Ten Commandments as a covenant document began at Sinai and ended at the cross (2 Cor 3:7-11).
Grace and Peace
Not according to what I read in my Bible. God's character never changes, which these commandments reflect His eternally, holy righteous and perfect character. Psa19:7 Rom7:12 why they didn't disappear in the NC Rev 11:18 Rev15:5NKJVThat’s a well-written summary, but it overlooks one key point — while moral awareness existed before Sinai, the Ten Commandments were given as part of a specific covenant with Israel, not as a timeless moral code for all humanity. Romans 2:14-15 shows that Gentiles have conscience, not tablets of stone. The law written on hearts points to the new covenant work of the Spirit, not the old Mosaic code. The principles of right and wrong existed, yes — but the Ten Commandments as a covenant document began at Sinai and ended at the cross (2 Cor 3:7-11).
Grace and Peace
The words of the covenant-the Ten Commandments Deut4:13 Exo 34:28 went from tables of stone to tablets of the heart in the New Covenant 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 why the New Covenant is established on better promises Heb8:6 and the better promise is what God will do in us, if we cooperate with Him and not rebel Rom8:7-8 John14:15-18
I can show you examples of the law being in our heart using the same commandments by the teaching of Jesus if you want. God promised He would not alter the words of His covenant Psa89:34 why the New Covenant is established (the basis) on better promises of what He will do.
Col3:7-11 is about the ministration changing not the law, the law went from written on stone to written in the heart 2Cor3:3
Yes I see what you mean... That is a strongly supported position.
Greace and Peace
“ notice how Paul frames it:
He’s writing to believers who had alreadytrusted in Christ and then expressed that faith through baptism.”
right . He’s explaining to people who believe and were baptized in Jesus name for remission of sins . And he’s explaining how thier sins were remitted through Jesus death applied to them through baptism.
It doesn’t matter if the chicken was first or the egg because all chickens are born from eggs. If that makes any sense . Jesus death and resurrection is a central and foundational theme and truth of the gospel essential . But my point is there’s a lot of essentials it’s true Jesus death is the only atonement for sin so that makes it essential to believe and his resurrection also essential
Bit what about his identify as Gods only begotten son sent Into the world to teach man the truth ?
“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
John 18:37 KJV
That also is essential to accept Jesus the judge and his everlasting word that will judge humanity
See this part here look at the extremes of sinply accepting or rejecting his word life and death
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
And the other extreme
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
What I’m saying is we don’t say “ Jesus died and rose “ therefore his words no longer apply or aren’t important now “
instead because he truly died for our sins and rose again it makes his word living and active and powerful and truth and faith .
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
Paul later
“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; ( repentance )
and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; ( hearing and believing the gospel )
and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”( walking in faith )
Ephesians 4:21-24 KJV
Or James using his own words
“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness,( repent ) and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. ( believe the gospel the word of Christ )
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
James 1:21-22 KJV
The death and resurrection of Jesus is like the stoning sacrifice and scapegoat sacrifice in one . It isn’t everything it’s the atonement . Before the blood is shed there’s a whole covenant word given by the mediator that’s all what defines the covenant what the mediator who sheds the blood says in the covenant it was Moses word in tbe ot and animal blood
It’s Jesus word and his blood in the new covenant both are necassary and both make the other relevant and perfectly able to save
Yes, or out of it either, which is why folks unfamiliar with GW are accountable and judged
on the basis of general revelation via creation and logic/conscience (Rom. 1:20, 2:11-16).
I think that's a misapplication of Paul's writings. God wrote something very specific in the hearts and minds of His New Covenant believers, His laws 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 and that not leaving it up to man to do what feels right or wrong to them, that is what is depending on our righteousness, which is fifthly rags over God's righteousness Psa119:172 which is everlasting Psa119:141 We are told our heart is deceptive above all Jer17:9 so I do not believe Paul is teaching to take God's laws out of our hearts and replace God's covenant with what seems right to man. Jesus ratified His covenant at the Cross, it is finished Paul came after His covenant was ratified. To make changes, Jesus would need to die again and His Sacrifice is once and for all. Heb10:10
Those unfamiliar with Scripture would not know those verses.
Thus, the verses regarding general revelation must apply.