Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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He simply believes the grace of God is necessary for true free volitional choices, which is far closer to truth than those who believe the fallen natural man has unfettered free will. Where I believe he errs is that short of a new heart the natural man is still operating according a corrupted heart and without the Spirit he can only operate in the flesh. An individual can only operate in the flesh or in the Spirit. There is no third choice.
only responding to this:

"An individual can only operate in the flesh or in the Spirit. There is no third choice."

the "third choice" could be what we discussed the other day ... that the Word of God is life. Even you said "God is a spirit. The words of Jesus are spirit and life".

When someone reads the Word of God ... or when someone hears the Word of God ... if that Word of God is not rejected ... the living Word of God is effectual in bringing about the promise of God.
.
 
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1-Corinthians4-7b-John3-27-Romans9-15-16s.png

1 Corinthians 4 verse 7b; John 3 verse 27; Romans 9 verses 15-16 ~ What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
 
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I will not fail to retain eternal life in Heaven because Jesus makes sure I won't. That's what the verses mean, not that you can understand them.

Eternal life is one thing.
We can not lose our salvation.

For we were bought at a price.
We are now being "His property."
Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit,
who is in you, whom you have received from God?
You are not your own; you were bought at a price.
Therefore, honor God with your bodies."
1 Corinthians 6:19-20​
No one is going to rob God of what He has purchased with His blood!
We can not lose our salvation for that reason!

This life that we are now experiencing in time is for when God desires that we walk in the Spirit and sound doctrine.
Correct doctrine to reveal the nature, and thinking, of Christ.

Now is a different matter in not losing anything. For we can become complete losers in time by following false doctrines
that have us revealing to the world and the angels an artificial Jesus.

Here in time. Right now. Is when we can lose out on blessings that God had planned for our future with Him.
Yes! For we can lose!
Lose our eternal rewards. Rewards that will be given only to those who pleased God by their discerning way of life
while still here on earth.

False doctrines sucker many away from the gold, silver, and precious stones that God wants us to guard and treasure in our hearts.


For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be
revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has
been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will
suffer loss, but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames."
1 Corinthians 3:11-15.
See what that says?

Losers can not lose their salvation!
But, we can lose out in what He wants to bless us with for eternity.
Finding ourselves ashamed in a state of knowing we have not pleased the Lord with our lives.

False doctrine is the curse!

It was our refusing of correction that robs and steals from us the treasures God wishes to bestow upon us for eternity,
and for granting us in time to be having us experience Life more abundantly!

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads
to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road
that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13-14​

You see it?

It says that only a few find *life!*
Not, that only a few find salvation.

What is that life?

The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they
may have life, and have it to the full." John 10:10​

Getting suckered by what appeals to our natural way of survival thinking with false doctrine is no minor offense!
Bonding with others, and finding acceptance because of it, produces losers. Stop patting each other on your backs.


Enuf said...
 
Some of the crazy things I have seen posted by FWers include the fact that they do not count faith
as a good thing, because they insist it is not included in the good things that come from God, and
Scripture says ALL good things come from Him. Then again, the list of things FWers say that
contradict and outright deny what is explicitly articulated in Scripture is quite long. I made
a partial list of the gross errors of one FWer, and another FWer put the boring emoji on it.
They simply are not interested/don't care how much Scripture they reject to favour their idol.
 
1-Corinthians4-7b-John3-27-Romans9-15-16s.png

1 Corinthians 4 verse 7b; John 3 verse 27; Romans 9 verses 15-16 ~ What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
Of course!

Don't waste what you have received.
 
Yes I most certainly do and I was saved, even as a Natural born Jew, the way the Book of Acts describes in multiple examples when the Holy Ghost overcome upon me I began speaking in tongues. So I know that I know that I know I am saved because I did it the way the Holy Ghost did it in the Bible.
Are you in Israel today,
Do the busy town streets really go as quiet as I've seen them go on YouTube today, still there
 
only responding to this:

"An individual can only operate in the flesh or in the Spirit. There is no third choice."

the "third choice" could be what we discussed the other day ... that the Word of God is life. Even you said "God is a spirit. The words of Jesus are spirit and life".

When someone reads the Word of God ... or when someone hears the Word of God ... if that Word of God is not rejected ... the living Word of God is effectual in bringing about the promise of God.
.
If the individual receiving the word of God is operating from a heart that has not been changed, he is operating according to the flesh and will not obey. If he is operating from a new heart, and by the Spirit he will.
Read Ezekiel 36:26-27 afresh. God gives a new heart and new spirit as well as His Spirit. The resulting effect is that the individual will obey. Before God does this, they are not subject to the law, neither can they be. The new heart and spirit, and the Spirit are what makes an individual subject to the law.
 
Eternal life is one thing.
We can not lose our salvation.

For we were bought at a price.
We are now being "His property."
Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit,
who is in you, whom you have received from God?
You are not your own; you were bought at a price.
Therefore, honor God with your bodies."
1 Corinthians 6:19-20​
No one is going to rob God of what He has purchased with His blood!
We can not lose our salvation for that reason!

This life that we are now experiencing in time is for when God desires that we walk in the Spirit and sound doctrine.
Correct doctrine to reveal the nature, and thinking, of Christ.

Now is a different matter in not losing anything. For we can become complete losers in time by following false doctrines
that have us revealing to the world and the angels an artificial Jesus.

Here in time. Right now. Is when we can lose out on blessings that God had planned for our future with Him.
Yes! For we can lose!
Lose our eternal rewards. Rewards that will be given only to those who pleased God by their discerning way of life
while still here on earth.

False doctrines sucker many away from the gold, silver, and precious stones that God wants us to guard and treasure in our hearts.


For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be
revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has
been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will
suffer loss, but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames."
1 Corinthians 3:11-15.
See what that says?

Losers can not lose their salvation!
But, we can lose out in what He wants to bless us with for eternity.
Finding ourselves ashamed in a state of knowing we have not pleased the Lord with our lives.

False doctrine is the curse!

It was our refusing of correction that robs and steals from us the treasures God wishes to bestow upon us for eternity,
and for granting us in time to be having us experience Life more abundantly!

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads
to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road
that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13-14​

You see it?

It says that only a few find *life!*
Not, that only a few find salvation.

What is that life?

The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they
may have life, and have it to the full." John 10:10​

Getting suckered by what appeals to our natural way of survival thinking with false doctrine is no minor offense!
Bonding with others, and finding acceptance because of it, produces losers. Stop patting each other on your backs.


Enuf said...
TL;DR
Explanations have been provided to you before, and you've simply dismissed them. There's really no point in discussing anything with you because you never receive any of it. Have a great day!
 
I read the Verses before and after your cherry picked Verse and it says those who were saved saw the Gentiles begin speaking in tongues and they knew that God had gave the Gentiles Repentance. It's exactly how I said it was in my first post to you.

No, that is not what you said in your first post. This is what you said it in post 15,695", which initiated the discussion:

"I believe the moment you Repent like the Bible says then you are Regenerated [which is saved because you are filled with the Holy Ghost]. "

My point was the opposite of that - that true repentance is from God not man. As such, it is given as a byproduct of salvation as a free gift- not as a product of man's choices nor does it cause salvation, as stated by your post.
 
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For and educated man, your understanding of scripture seems very shallow!

Of course they believed, the question is why. [not by works of righteousness which we have done], but [but according to His mercy He saved us]
And, as to your added verse, yes believers are to be reminded to continue in good works. God equips His people for good works, [once they become saved, not before].
These works are referred to as fruit of the Spirit, and are produced by the nine virtues listed in the Bible in Galatians 5:22-23: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. These are not human efforts but are cultivated by the Holy Spirit within a person as they follow Jesus Christ, representing a spiritual character that is the opposite of the "fruit of the flesh".

If you're going to be asserting yourself as a judge of depth of understanding, it may be time to change your "Just my opinion" disclaimer at the bottom of your posts.

I'd hope you'd agree that it's not my added verse, but my adding the verse Paul wrote and you didn't post.

It seems the first question about their believing should be "when" since that's about the only consideration to be discussed in regard to the language in these verses. Why they believed would be the next layer of discussion we'd both have to force into the language even more so than when they believed.

The perfect tense tells us it was sometime in the past and still existing when Paul commissioned Titus per this letter. So, the question is when in the past did they believe?

I assume you think it was after God saved them. My suggestion said it was [logically] before or even at the time God saved them.

I don't think the language absolutely supports either one of us, so my assertion is just as good as yours.

If we go to other Scriptures, I think mine is accurate and yours is not. They heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ and were being convicted by the Spirit > they chose to believe / submit to God > God saved them. Now Paul is instructing Titus to set them as Christians in order and get them to live godly lives.
 
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TL;DR
Explanations have been provided to you before, and you've simply dismissed them. There's really no point in discussing anything with you because you never receive any of it. Have a great day!

Go and do likewise....
Reap what you say I will sow...
bye bye!
 
I'd hope you'd agree that it's not my added verse, but my adding the verse Paul wrote and you didn't post.
You can insert this point of first believing in the past into verse 5 "not by works of righteousness
we have done - but by believing in Him - according to His mercy He saved us...

^ What you did... You added to the added verse by inserting something that was
not there originally as written by Paul and are now being dishonest about it?


All so you can overshadow with your vain self-exalting ideology the fact that it is according to God's mercy
and not anything we had done! ... but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal
by the Holy Spirit. This is the Spirit He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that,
having been justified by His grace, we would become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
 
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