Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

"Free will" in the Bible? ~ Freedom is something believers are called to (Galatians 5 verse 13). We need Jesus to “set us free” (Galatians 5 verse 1). If Jesus has not freed us from the bondage of sin, then we are still slaves to sin (Romans 6 verses 6-7). Freedom is found in the presence of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3 verse 17). Only Jesus can give us true freedom (John 8 verse 36). Only through His lovingkindness can we truly make choices unfettered by a nature that is inherently hostile toward God.

 

[rogerg]

The reason I know you don't understand those verses because you believe in election. Those verses say God gave the Gentiles Repentance. The way you are explaining it would mean God gave all Gentiles Repentance. Is EVERY GENTILE TODAY SAVED BECAUSE GOD GAVE THEM REPENTANCE? IT'S ONLY 8 BILLION GENTILES CURRENTLY. ARE THEY ALL GIVEN REPENTANCE?

That's ridiculous. No, that is not what I said - not anywhere close. Read it again only this time pay attention and try to
comprehend it.

 

[studier]

The more sound doctrine we possess, frees up God to move us along in our thinking.

Nicely said!

I've heard some explain the renewal of the mind as re-engineering it, restructuring it, rebuilding it. The foundational thought being Jesus is the Christ, the only foundation that can be built upon. From there, gold, silver, precious stones - accurate doctrines.

BTW, when Paul's writing 1Cor2, we can keep in mind that he's had this done to him, and this is the perspective he's writing from - extensive restructuring from foundation then up with quality materials - doctrines - thoughts.

 

[studier]

In Paul's letter to Titus we find the follow words beginning in 3:3

3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.

Please point out one single thing that was done by man to [become heirs according to the hope of eternal life]. Everything was accomplished by God alone!

Does this mean the requirements/actions by man were not mentioned just for ease of reading?

No Paul is saying we also were sinners, but look at what God did for us!

Added a verse to help you out. Perfect tense "have believed" = believed at some point in the past and at the time of writing were still believing. You can insert this point of first believing in the past into verse 5 "not by works of righteousness we have done - but by believing in Him - according to His mercy He saved us...

Divorcing Paul from Paul let alone all Scripture - not good practice.

 

[studier]

I don't think we will ever understand why some prefer the darkness instead of the light but we can at least know it is the way of things and this fallen world is more than proof that the dark prevails not nor does it ever serve the good.

How about autonomy vs. submission?

 

[Magenta]

Added a verse to help you out. Perfect tense "have believed" = believed at some point in the past and at the time of writing were still believing. You can insert this point of first believing in the past into verse 5 "not by works of righteousness we have done - but by believing in Him - according to His mercy He saved us...

Divorcing Paul from Paul let alone all Scripture - not good practice.

Rewriting Scripture still, I see. Not a good practice.

 

[NightTwister]

Are you that ignorant of Scripture to say that?

The following passage is not about some believers failing?

If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God ​

will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. ​

I am not saying that you should pray about that." 1 John 5:16​

You think that means success?

No you're that ignorant of scripture not to understand it. At least it's not the full on heresy you usually spout.

 

[Jordon]

There is no such thing as "free will of the flesh". Man has will. It's not broken up into various pieces. The body can't make decisions, it is autonomous. You don't decide to digest your food or for the synapses in your brain to fire. Even some bodily functions that can be controlled by sheer effort of will, like breathing, will be overridden even when survival is impossible like underwater. The very fact the lungs of all drowning victims are filled with water shows the body cannot think for itself but is reliant on autonomous functions.



You can't tame your flesh, if we could, we would all think ourselves well from sickness and disease. You control your thinking and where our thinking is wrong it needs to be corrected. This is why we are told to be transformed in our mind. Rom.12:2 Will and thinking are of the soul, not the body. The corruption we know as the sin nature is in the body, not the soul. The soul is in darkness and without truth due to being spiritually dead so the sin nature which, acts on the autonomy of the body and is self serving in nature only (against the Spirit who is the servant of all Mk.9:35 ), deceives the darkened mind. It does not alter the nature of the soul unless that soul willfully embraces the darkness and lies and hence becomes evil. We all are culpable of evil because we are weakened by the flesh and the corruption at work in it but that does mean all willfully embrace evil. This is why when the light and truth of God comes to us and the darkness and lies are dispelled and the sin nature in the flesh is under the control of grace, we can choose what is right because that is the true desire of our souls.

This is how we can be led to Christ (the drawing of the father). If the corruption were in the soul by nature, there would be no hope except to give a literal new soul to a person but then you would no longer be you for who we are as individuals is to be found in our soul.



The purpose of having a will is to live within reality which, is another way to say to live within God's will. We were not created to have spirit, soul and body be separated from each other. You only need look at all the strife and sorrow in this fallen world to know such separation is folly. God originally created man spirit, soul and body as one entity for a purpose, to desire to live otherwise, even for a moment of time, is not wise.

Yep the flesh is a wonderful creation and sometimes the human brain in all it complexity is cable of understanding and it can be tightened up with a screwdriver or plastered with a Harvey wall banger

 

[Magenta]

No you're that ignorant of scripture not to understand it. At least it's not the full on heresy you usually spout.

Philippians 4 v 13 + 12a I can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me

 

[Magenta]

There is no such thing as "free will (snip)

That is all that needed to be said, really...

 

[Jordon]

There is no such thing as "free will of the flesh". Man has will. It's not broken up into various pieces. The body can't make decisions, it is autonomous. You don't decide to digest your food or for the synapses in your brain to fire. Even some bodily functions that can be controlled by sheer effort of will, like breathing, will be overridden even when survival is impossible like underwater. The very fact the lungs of all drowning victims are filled with water shows the body cannot think for itself but is reliant on autonomous functions.



You can't tame your flesh, if we could, we would all think ourselves well from sickness and disease. You control your thinking and where our thinking is wrong it needs to be corrected. This is why we are told to be transformed in our mind. Rom.12:2 Will and thinking are of the soul, not the body. The corruption we know as the sin nature is in the body, not the soul. The soul is in darkness and without truth due to being spiritually dead so the sin nature which, acts on the autonomy of the body and is self serving in nature only (against the Spirit who is the servant of all Mk.9:35 ), deceives the darkened mind. It does not alter the nature of the soul unless that soul willfully embraces the darkness and lies and hence becomes evil. We all are culpable of evil because we are weakened by the flesh and the corruption at work in it but that does mean all willfully embrace evil. This is why when the light and truth of God comes to us and the darkness and lies are dispelled and the sin nature in the flesh is under the control of grace, we can choose what is right because that is the true desire of our souls.

This is how we can be led to Christ (the drawing of the father). If the corruption were in the soul by nature, there would be no hope except to give a literal new soul to a person but then you would no longer be you for who we are as individuals is to be found in our soul.



The purpose of having a will is to live within reality which, is another way to say to live within God's will. We were not created to have spirit, soul and body be separated from each other. You only need look at all the strife and sorrow in this fallen world to know such separation is folly. God originally created man spirit, soul and body as one entity for a purpose, to desire to live otherwise, even for a moment of time, is not wise.

The flesh can become addicted to anything, so it really does need taming, it really can become addicted to anything,

What you shove in to your flesh can have great consequences, in many ways, and the things that are shoved in are often without realising those consequences fully, which came from the human brain, not fully listening to element of concern from within o the memory banks, of all the information the brain had decided to store as useful information.

Including the time when the conscious was pricked with caution, the nature of the conscious had its conscious pricked, but decided I wasn't going to store that information, because I'm ok to have what I want,

The conscious had been pricked with it's own desire, which favoured the idea of, well everyone lives and dies, so I'll live for moment, and get as much enjoyment whilst living as I impossibly can.

The conscious life is for the living not the dieing ill worry about dieing when the time comes, these are all the thoughts of the conscious that is pricked by the desire of the flesh.

Can we call that free will also, well in away you can but you can also call it nature to, does nature have a free will of it own or does it have a law of it own.

Well whatever it is, it's willfully unacceptable

 

[BillyBob]

Added a verse to help you out. Perfect tense "have believed" = believed at some point in the past and at the time of writing were still believing. You can insert this point of first believing in the past into verse 5 "not by works of righteousness we have done - but by believing in Him - according to His mercy He saved us...

Divorcing Paul from Paul let alone all Scripture - not good practice.

For and educated man, your understanding of scripture seems very shallow!

Of course they believed, the question is why. [not by works of righteousness which we have done], but [but according to His mercy He saved us]
And, as to your added verse, yes believers are to be reminded to continue in good works. God equips His people for good works, [once they become saved, not before].
These works are referred to as fruit of the Spirit, and are produced by the nine virtues listed in the Bible in Galatians 5:22-23: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. These are not human efforts but are cultivated by the Holy Spirit within a person as they follow Jesus Christ, representing a spiritual character that is the opposite of the "fruit of the flesh".

 

[sawdust]

How about autonomy vs. submission?

Yes but I don't think that really answers why one is willing to submit and another unwilling. You and I look at Christ and see great beauty and glory and all manner of wonderful things yet there are those who look at Christ and abhor that same beauty and I'm not speaking of those who are simply ignorant and/or misinformed. It goes beyond thinking the Gospel is foolishness, they think it evil.

Can you in all honesty understand such a person? (assuming you have met at least one person like that in your life) I know I certainly can't.

 

[Jordon]

Some prefer Harvey Wallbanger to get hammered .

yeah I forgot to mention the hammer is for tightening the screw up further,

 

[lrs68]

No, but I believe in Jesus, and Jesus alone as Savior, do you?

Yes I most certainly do and I was saved, even as a Natural born Jew, the way the Book of Acts describes in multiple examples when the Holy Ghost overcome upon me I began speaking in tongues. So I know that I know that I know I am saved because I did it the way the Holy Ghost did it in the Bible.

 

[lrs68]

That's not proof of what you're claiming. It's like you don't even understand the English language. This isn't the first time.

If the Bible isn't proof to you then it's a no wonder why you believe as you do!

 

[lrs68]

That's ridiculous. No, that is not what I said - not anywhere close. Read it again only this time pay attention and try to
comprehend it.

I read the Verses before and after your cherry picked Verse and it says those who were saved saw the Gentiles begin speaking in tongues and they knew that God had gave the Gentiles Repentance. It's exactly how I said it was in my first post to you.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

How does belief enter into a heart that is deceitful - a heart incapable of curing itself. Something outside of it must first
enter in to change it. Man of himself is unable to do so. And if the heart can't be changed by man, then neither can it believe by man.

The Word of God is what enters into the heart that is deceitful. The Word of God changes the heart of man. The words contained in the Word of God are living words ... they are Spirit and they are life ... when read, they aren't just words on a page ... and when spoken, they don't just drop to the ground ... God's Word is either believed by the reader/hearer or God's Word is suppressed in unrighteousness by the reader/hearer. The reader stops his or her eyes and the hearer stops his or her ears long before God gives them over to their foolishness as shown in Rom 1:20-32.

[Rom 10:9 NIV] 9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

yes ... in agreement with what is written in Romans 10:9 ... and read what is written in vs 8 ...

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

FTFM.

FTFY.
.

 

[BillyBob]

Yes I most certainly do and I was saved, even as a Natural born Jew, the way the Book of Acts describes in multiple examples when the Holy Ghost overcome upon me I began speaking in tongues. So I know that I know that I know I am saved because I did it the way the Holy Ghost did it in the Bible.

1 Cor 4:7