Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Mem]

Cute, but nonresponsive.

You've practically declared me doa.

 

[Cameron143]

Wrong again.

As Job 1&2 (and many other incidences) prove conclusively, Satan is a free will agent.

And as this verse proves, the evil he does is solely of his own innate will.

[Jhn 8:44 KJV]
44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Devastating the entire creation is hardly unimportant either. Neither is the necessity of the incarnation and crucifixion. Quite the contrary.

Focus on Christ...it will come to you.
Devastating creation was his role. Making all things new is what Christ does.

 

[Cameron143]

You've practically declared me doa.

The victim card doesn't suit you.

 

[Mem]

The victim card doesn't suit you.

I'm very much alive.

 

[Cameron143]

I'm very much alive.

I never suggested otherwise.

 

[cv5]

Devastating creation was his role.

Role you say? As if God is some evil puppeteer?

No, I don't believe that for one split second as you do. But what I do believe in is the sincerity of God when He weeps for the lost in Old Testament and the New.

I also believe in the sincerity of the sweating great drops of blood in agony for the lost. And no, Jesus never weeps for Himself nor is He sweating it out because of the impending crucifixion.

Oh and another thing.....you have no pity for the victims of Satan's treachery huh? Of the kind that Jesus demonstrates?

Seems like a Calvinist thing. Pretty much all the Calvinists feel the same way. I mean don't feel the same way.

 

[cv5]

it will come to you.

Evidently it came, and it went, and it passed you right by. Tragic.

 

[Kroogz]

nope my real name Gordon ramsbottom, I've been called billy the goat since I was a kid, I've had lots of jokes made about my name and it's stuck with me, kind of like tied into my DNA.

Besides I like goats.

Petty insults don't wind me up,

You should try learning some manners in how to hold a pleasant conversation,

Ignorance ?

I asked you a question, are you to scared to say who you where refering to when you said there was reformed mob at work here ?

Where not just people you can label and categorize in to a box, because are view points on scripture don't like up with yours you know.

You've got a cheek to call me ignorant. If the shoe fits ware it is what I'm seeing from yourself.

Your friend who you feel compelled to stand up for was in the wrong not me. And I shouldn't be made to look bad for his mistakes.

You should own up your own conduct before.you try to find fault in me.

Honestly i can't believe I'm having this discussion with Christians.

I told you my stance on my beliefs, and you want more information from me, to prove to you I'm not this reformed mob person, can you even contemplate how ridiculous that sounds ?
Even if I was was to share any more beliefs with you, you would just no doubt start another argument.

No thanks pal I'm out

Passive aggressive.

negativistic, sullen, obstructionist, cynical, and uncooperative.

Indirect expressions of the very things that they accuse others of.

Role you say? As if God is some evil puppeteer?

No, I don't believe that for one split second as you do. But what I do believe in is the sincerity of God when He weeps for the lost in Old Testament and the New.

I also believe in the sincerity of the sweating great drops of blood in agony for the lost. And no, Jesus never weeps for Himself nor is He sweating it out because of the impending crucifixion.

Oh and another thing.....you have no pity for the victims of Satan's treachery huh? Of the kind that Jesus demonstrates?

Seems like a Calvinist thing. Pretty much all the Calvinists feel the same way. I mean don't feel the same way.

It truly is sad. It truly is maddening. It truly is FALSE.

Calvies/reformed/tulip theology does not see the true Lord weeping for the world.....ALL.

The Lord Jesus Christ was selfless. He agonized over the fact of the lost and He would be Judge.

Sad that the calvies can't have a heart for the lost like the Lord Jesus Christ did.

 

[decipher]

is god capable of being provoked to wrath by mankind’s actions ?

That's a very good question. How could the all knowing, all powerful God, who transcends time, possibly even be surprised? Yet the God of the Old Testament did. Can anyone please explain the answer to Pilgrimshope's question.

 

[Kroogz]

Satan is a tool of God for God's ends; a mere pawn playing his role like Judas. He's not important.

Like you? Or me? Or anyone?

 

[Kroogz]

That's a very good question. How could the all knowing, all powerful God, who transcends time, possibly even be surprised? Yet the God of the Old Testament did. Can anyone please explain the answer to Pilgrimshope's question.

Freewill.

 

[Genez]

You avoided the questions.

Which you probably made up off the top of your head to try to jam things up again.

 

[Genez]

I have yet to see much in the way of useful biblical inputs into this thread from this person.
Like any good referee this person is not playing the game I guess.

Hot shot = No got.

 

[decipher]

In Calvinism, this is not an issue, the ones who are not "pre-selected" fit themselves for destruction anyway and we should be thankful god even decided to pre-select anyone.

Why this god loves some and not others, no one really knows, we just have to accept it because he is sovereign.

Exodus 33: 19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee, and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
In His eyes we are all sinners and are all undeserving. It seems that a characteristic that goes along with His choosing is that the person chosen recognizes his sins, repents, and seeks the forgiveness of God as well as His help in overcoming his sin. You are correct. He is sovereign. One sinner is not more or less deserving.

 

[Genez]

It's about the fulness of all His attributes being on display. God is equally glorified in all His attributes and ways.

That's wonderful Cameron!

See class!
Do your homework and you'll be like Cameron!

Very good, Cameron. Good boy!

seriously!

 

[Mem]

That's a very good question. How could the all knowing, all powerful God, who transcends time, possibly even be surprised? Yet the God of the Old Testament did. Can anyone please explain the answer to Pilgrimshope's question.

I can only go on my own experiences of being 'provoked to wrath.' I can get annoyed, and I can get angry without actually being provoked to wrath. But I've only noticed wrath come after having been brought to the point of tears, and at this point, only a show of repentance will appease it.

 

[Genez]

Exodus 33: 19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee, and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
In His eyes we are all sinners and are all undeserving. It seems that a characteristic that goes along with His choosing is that the person chosen recognizes his sins, repents, and seeks the forgiveness of God as well as His help in overcoming his sin.

Wait a second....

In His eyes we are all sinners and are all undeserving?

Did you mean?

In His eyes we were all sinners and undeserving.

We are now a new creation in Christ!

​

To the praise of His glorious grace and favor, which He so freely bestowed on us in the Beloved [His Son, Jesus Christ]." Ephesians 1:6​

 

[decipher]

I can only go on my own experiences of being 'provoked to wrath.' I can get annoyed, and I can get angry without actually being provoked to wrath. But I've only noticed wrath come after having been brought to the point of tears, and at this point, only a show of repentance will appease it.

You have not answered the question.

 

[Cameron143]

Role you say? As if God is some evil puppeteer?

No, I don't believe that for one split second as you do. But what I do believe in is the sincerity of God when He weeps for the lost in Old Testament and the New.

I also believe in the sincerity of the sweating great drops of blood in agony for the lost. And no, Jesus never weeps for Himself nor is He sweating it out because of the impending crucifixion.

Oh and another thing.....you have no pity for the victims of Satan's treachery huh? Of the kind that Jesus demonstrates?

Seems like a Calvinist thing. Pretty much all the Calvinists feel the same way. I mean don't feel the same way.

Nice appeal to emotionalism. I would that all would be saved. And while God and Jesus wept over Israel, and Jesus wept for Lazarus, God didn't weep over all those He sent Israel to destroy. He didn't weep over Sodom. He didn't weep over Egypt. He didn't weep over Babylon. He destroyed woman and children. Why aren't you honest about what God has actually done? Do you think less of God for doing these things? Does it lessen God in your eyes to see Him as He is? Or does it simply not comport to the God you have imagined?

 

[Magenta]

yep really, your behaviour is very un Christian

Proverbs 25 v 12 Like an earring of gold or an ornament of fine gold is a wise man’s rebuke to a listening ear.