Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[studier]

Nor can I make moral/spiritual choices that are contrary to my sinful nature

Corpse man.

No conscience.

No sense.

 

[Cameron143]

“If one doesn't want to acknowledge that, they can bury their head in the sand. But the God most people imagine is only a fraction of who God is. For whatever reason, that makes people uncomfortable”

yeah he also deals very justly according to what they chose to do and tells them about good and evil and the consequences of the choices they make. Like any good parent would do knowing thier children must make choices when they grow up because the truth that people try to bury thier head in the sand because it makes them uncomfortable is
More like this

“Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭


Which seems pretty relevant to clarify so as not to think he’s just randomly by his Will and not thier works and choices. Acting harshly and unjustly . Seems relevant to me relating to what you were saying .

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or evil.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭

It seems relevant because it’s wrath being provoked by man’s actions that comes upon places like soddom and Gomorrah because of thier wickedness, not because he just feels like destroying them or it’s part of some master plan of his Will.

What I had said was all those examples you used were because the people rebelled against god and provoked his wrath seemed relevant

But if you want to see people avoid truth and “bury thier heads in the sand “
lol show them this consistent truth from the Bible. And then watch them duck and cover

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-13‬ ‭

What does it mean that someone is in Christ? What are the benefits that accrue to an individual who is in Christ?

 

[Magenta]

Corpse man.

No conscience.

No sense.

That is not what is meant to be spiritually dead to God, and it is inane that you and others keep presenting
it that way, with one of the others repeatedly telling people to go preach in cemeteries and then lying about
conflating spiritual death with physical death. I suspect your motives in doing this are equally dishonest.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You should never mention tater tots to a Potato-Head!

.

 

[Genez]

If everyone got what was coming to us, we would all suffer God's wrath.

In our fallen state, WHICH WE DID NOT CHOOSE FOR?
We are responsible before God?

NOW, IF WE CHOSE TO BE THAT WAY?
Then we would all suffer God's wrath.

Why can't you get that concept straight?

Did you choose to be born with a fallen nature?

I am asking YOU!
Did YOU choose for that?

No, you did not...
Someone else made that choice.

Now, what we do about it?
That will determine about the issue of God's wrath.

Get that straight, please!

Learn the difference between the wrath of God, and being forsaken by God.

Jesus was forsaken for our sins.
God did not blow him up to include Jesus in his wrath for our sins.

 

[Cameron143]

In our fallen state, WHICH WE DID NOT CHOOSE FOR?
We are responsible before God?

NOW, IF WE CHOSE TO BE THAT WAY?
Then we would all suffer God's wrath.

Why can't you get that concept straight?

Did you choose to be born with a fallen nature?

I am asking YOU!
Did YOU choose for that?

No, you did not...
Someone else made that choice.

Now, what we do about it?
That will determine about the issue of God's wrath.

Get that straight, please!

Learn the difference between the wrath of God, and being forsaken by God.

Jesus was forsaken for our sins.
God did not blow him up to include Jesus in his wrath for our sins.

More gobbledygook.

 

[Genez]

More gobbledygook.

That proves you can not get it straight.

You do not want answers.
You can not think with them.

You want something to talk about that you can bond with others to cheer each other on when you take your stand.

Wasting time, sir... is not a good thing.

Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. . Therefore, do not ​

be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. Eph 5:16-17​

Why keep playing your TULIP games, sir?
Your cheerleaders will not be the ones issuing our eternal rewards.


grace and peace .........

 

[Kroogz]

In our fallen state, WHICH WE DID NOT CHOOSE FOR?
We are responsible before God?

NOW, IF WE CHOSE TO BE THAT WAY?
Then we would all suffer God's wrath.

Why can't you get that concept straight?

Did you choose to be born with a fallen nature?

I am asking YOU!
Did YOU choose for that?

Very important questions. And very deserving of serious contemplation.

Because this is how God made us ALL savable.

Equal opportunity for ALL. Grace and mercy can be offered to ALL and it does not impugn His Justice/righteousness.....A blessing in disguise!

 

[Rufus]

It is God Who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose. Apart from Me you can do nothing. No word from God will ever fail. “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

Yet in FWT, God's Word returns to him void far more often than not because his universal grace given to all men to "set their wills free" equally produces far more gospel rejections by sinners than acceptance. God's Word consistently fails! Imagine if you can how things would have looked for Jesus if any of his gracious miracles failed!

 

[Cameron143]

That proves you can not get it straight.

You do not want answers.
You can not think with them.

You want something to talk about that you can bond with others to cheer each other on when you take your stand.

Wasting time, sir... is not a good thing.

Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. . Therefore, do not ​

be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. Eph 5:16-17​

Why keep playing your TULIP games, sir?
Your cheerleaders will not be the ones issuing our eternal rewards.


grace and peace .........

No. It proves you aren't the teacher you believe yourself to be and what little discernment you possess.

 

[Rufus]

Very important questions. And very deserving of serious contemplation.

Because this is how God made us ALL savable.

Equal opportunity for ALL. Grace and mercy can be offered to ALL and it does not impugn His Justice/righteousness.....A blessing in disguise!

Except for the proud since God ordained his grace in eternity only to the humble. Doesn't appear from where I'm sitting that the proud are "saveable". How are the proud going to be able to save themselves apart from God's grace?

 

[Rufus]

get yourself some of these ...


View attachment 278980


... then re-read what I submitted.





I am quite comfortable defining myself using the same words God reveals in Scripture.





He also instructs His children to imitate Him ...

Ephesians 5:1-2 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

ever hear of tater tots ? that's the believer ... we're tater tots ... hah!!!


having said that ... you have yet to define "FWer" ... still waiting ...
.

I'll leave that to you since you love to boast in man's "freewill", which, by the way, is a whole lot more free than God's! Do you not understand that in which you boast so much?

 

[Magenta]

Yet in FWT, God's Word returns to him void far more often than not because his universal grace given to all men to "set their wills free" equally produces far more gospel rejections by sinners than acceptance. God's Word consistently fails! Imagine if you can how things would have looked for Jesus if any of his gracious miracles failed!

They do not even believe their will needs to be set free. Nope. Taken captive to do the will of the devil,
they call freedom to choose to do God's will. Blinded to the truth of the gospel, under the power and
influence of the wicked one, a stony heart incapable of loving, obeying, or submitting to God... this is
what their theology has choosing to believe. In their belief system, that bad tree brings forth good
fruit regardless of the fact that Jesus said it was impossible. Their flesh must be miraculous!

Biblical truth concerning the natural man: The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Flesh serves the law of sin. Good itself does not dwell in me.

 

[Kroogz]

Except for the proud since God ordained his grace in eternity only to the humble.

I am very proud of you @Rufus. You humbled yourself. Good for you!

The calvies tell us over and over and over that man cannot humble himself. You did it!

 

[Rufus]

It was to answer the original question that prompted that response about Reformed idealism.

This was that question:

"Why did God permit for the Fall of Man to happen?"


.......

To stump wanna-be geniuses like yourself.

And for your info, God decreed his permission of the Fall -- unless, of course, you believe that he was powerless to prevent it.

 

[Rufus]

They do not even believe their will needs to be set free. Nope. Taken captive to do the will of the devil,
they call freedom to choose to do God's will. Blinded to the truth of the gospel, under the power and
influence of the wicked one, a stony heart incapable of loving, obeying, or submitting to God... this is
what their theology has choosing to believe. In their belief system, that bad tree brings forth good
fruit regardless of the fact that Jesus said it was impossible. Their flesh must be miraculous!

Biblical truth concerning the natural man: The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Flesh serves the law of sin. Good itself does not dwell in me.

FWers are indeed quite PROUD of the miraculous powers of their flesh and will. After all, they have deceived themselves into thinking they CAN do things that even the all-powerful Creator of the universe cannot do.

 

[Genez]

Very important questions. And very deserving of serious contemplation.

Because this is how God made us ALL savable.

Equal opportunity for ALL. Grace and mercy can be offered to ALL and it does not impugn His Justice/righteousness.....A blessing in disguise!

If God created us to always be unfallen?

How could we learn of God's mercy and justice?

Mercy would have remained an unknowable and foreign concept to us!

For God has bound everyone over to disobedience
so that he may have mercy on them all.

Romans 11:32​

 

[Rufus]

Role you say? As if God is some evil puppeteer?

No, I don't believe that for one split second as you do. But what I do believe in is the sincerity of God when He weeps for the lost in Old Testament and the New.

I also believe in the sincerity of the sweating great drops of blood in agony for the lost. And no, Jesus never weeps for Himself nor is He sweating it out because of the impending crucifixion.

Oh and another thing.....you have no pity for the victims of Satan's treachery huh? Of the kind that Jesus demonstrates?

Seems like a Calvinist thing. Pretty much all the Calvinists feel the same way. I mean don't feel the same way.

Of course not! Jesus was the poster child for masochism. He couldn't wait to get to the Cross to experience all the agony and pain!

 

[BillyBob]

Did you choose to be born with a fallen nature?

No I did not! And, I did not choose to follow God! He chose me long ago and made me His.

 

[Rufus]

We all exist at the pleasure of God. There are sheep and goats. Jesus didn't come to change goats into sheep, but to seek and to save the sheep. There are wheat and tares. No record of God changing tares into wheat. Why do such realities bother you so?

It bothers them because they think that all mankind has some inalienable right to His grace. God owes it to all mankind.