Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Calvies/reformed/tulip theology does not see the true Lord weeping for the world.....ALL. Sad that the calvies can't have a heart for the lost like the Lord Jesus Christ did.
I figure that they think that since the "pre-birth sovereign lottery" losers are utterly unsavable by any means (including the gospel) and are ivevitably consigned to their "fate", then who really gives a hoot about them anyways?

God never did like them much and neither should they. Not to mention that these lottery losers are "naturally" depraved and evil to the bone. So good riddance to the reprobates.
 
Like you? Or me? Or anyone?
We all exist at the pleasure of God. There are sheep and goats. Jesus didn't come to change goats into sheep, but to seek and to save the sheep. There are wheat and tares. No record of God changing tares into wheat. Why do such realities bother you so?
 
from-John14-17etc.png

The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. The world does not recognize Him. No one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him. The one who loves God is known by God. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile toward God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it. Whoever is not from God does not listen to us. from John 14 v 17, John 1 v 10, Matthew 11 v 27 & Luke 10 v 22, 1 Corinthians 8 v 3, Romans 8 v 9, 1 Corinthians 2 v 14, Romans 8 v 7, 1 John 4 v 6
 
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You have not answered the question.
It's undeniable that it is impossible that "fws" and "calvies" can successfully communicate with one another.
We'd all be better off bonding in our own 'what's wrong with fws' or 'calvies are clueless' threads.
 
Wait a second....

In His eyes we are all sinners and are all undeserving?

Did you mean?

In His eyes we were all sinners and undeserving.

We are now a new creation in Christ!
To the praise of His glorious grace and favor, which He so freely bestowed on us in the Beloved [His Son, Jesus Christ]." Ephesians 1:6​

I mean that from the people he chooses from, all are sinners.
 
I mean that from the people he chooses from, all are sinners.
Luke19-9-10.png

Luke 19 verses 9-10 ~ Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man too is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
 
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Nice appeal to emotionalism. I would that all would be saved. And while God and Jesus wept over Israel, and Jesus wept for Lazarus, God didn't weep over all those He sent Israel to destroy. He didn't weep over Sodom. He didn't weep over Egypt. He didn't weep over Babylon. He destroyed woman and children. Why aren't you honest about what God has actually done? Do you think less of God for doing these things? Does it lessen God in your eyes to see Him as He is? Or does it simply not comport to the God you have imagined?

Why must it be something that remains mysterious?
What would happen if God told you that the reason He saves many, you could understand it?

But that it takes understanding more doctrine than you now possess to understand it?
 
I mean that from the people he chooses from, all are sinners.

So what if that is the case?

If He is not forcing people to believe?
Then there must be a good reason why people get saved.
One that needs to eventually be understood.

Ephesians 1:4-5, means we are the ones He chose before the foundation of the earth to become the Bride for is beloved Son.

To make us to become the Bride? He predestined us to be born and to believe during the Church age!
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
In love, he predestined us for adoption to son ship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his
pleasure and will.

grace and peace ..............
 
Nice appeal to emotionalism. I would that all would be saved. And while God and Jesus wept over Israel, and Jesus wept for Lazarus, God didn't weep over all those He sent Israel to destroy. He didn't weep over Sodom. He didn't weep over Egypt. He didn't weep over Babylon. He destroyed woman and children. Why aren't you honest about what God has actually done? Do you think less of God for doing these things? Does it lessen God in your eyes to see Him as He is? Or does it simply not comport to the God you have imagined?

“He didn't weep over Sodom. He didn't weep over Egypt. He didn't weep over Babylon. He destroyed woman and children. Why aren't you honest about what God has actually done? “

all of those places established thier wickedness in the earth by thier own doings before he destroyed any of those nations . idolatry and sodomy and wickedness will always meet the same ends with God he repeatedly tells mankind and then shows them . God doesn’t do the evil then punish men , they do evil and then his warnings against evil come to pass

“You are free to , but thou shalt not , lest ye surely die “

I choose you now , and redeem you now ….Thou shalt not …., lest ye surely be put to death “

if you obey me and listen to my voice you’ll be blessed and live all theee blessings shall surely come to pass if you obey me

But if you don’t obey me and refuse to hear and follow other gods and worship them then all these curses will surely come upon you if you break my covenant and worship other gods “
 
I mean that from the people he chooses from, all are sinners.

He already chose

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

now it’s our turn

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭

bieng “ chosen “ is extremely misunderstood in this forum

but I have chosen Jerusalem, that my name might be there; and have chosen David to be over my people Israel.”
‭‭2 Chronicles‬ ‭6:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the LORD said, I will remove Judah also out of my sight, as I have removed Israel, and will cast off this city Jerusalem which I have chosen, and the house of which I said, My name shall be there.”
‭‭2 Kings‬ ‭23:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to choose him in return that’s the difference in those who shall be saved as a result of belief , and those who shall be damned as a result of disbelief
 
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Why must it be something that remains mysterious?
What would happen if God told you that the reason He saves many, you could understand it?

But that it takes understanding more doctrine than you now possess to understand it?
It's no mystery if one simply accepts what is true.
 
“He didn't weep over Sodom. He didn't weep over Egypt. He didn't weep over Babylon. He destroyed woman and children. Why aren't you honest about what God has actually done? “

all of those places established thier wickedness in the earth by thier own doings before he destroyed any of those nations . idolatry and sodomy and wickedness will always meet the same ends with God he repeatedly tells mankind and then shows them . God doesn’t do the evil then punish men , they do evil and then his warnings against evil come to pass

“You are free to , but thou shalt not , lest ye surely die “

I choose you now , and redeem you now ….Thou shalt not …., lest ye surely be put to death “

if you obey me and listen to my voice you’ll be blessed and live all theee blessings shall surely come to pass if you obey me

But if you don’t obey me and refuse to hear and follow other gods and worship them then all these curses will surely come upon you if you break my covenant and worship other gods “
If wickedness were the criteria for God's ire, then Israel itself would have been destroyed. Yet they weren't until God brought forth Christ. Then they too filled up their measure and God separated Himself from corporate Israel. The only reason He didn't do so sooner was because of the promises God made with Abraham. Then all the curses did come upon Israel. But Israel did fulfill God's purpose of bringing His Son into the world that salvation would be accomplished.
 
It's no mystery if one simply accepts what is true.
God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It's no mystery if one simply accepts what is true.

““Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-13, 16, 20‬ ‭
 
God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It's no mystery if one simply accepts what is true.

““Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-13, 16, 20‬ ‭
If everyone got what was coming to us, we would all suffer God's wrath.
 
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If wickedness were the criteria for God's ire, then Israel itself would have been destroyed. Yet they weren't until God brought forth Christ. Then they too filled up their measure and God separated Himself from corporate Israel. The only reason He didn't do so sooner was because of the promises God made with Abraham. Then all the curses did come upon Israel. But Israel did fulfill God's purpose of bringing His Son into the world that salvation would be accomplished.
Jerusalem was destroyed and Israel scattered in 70 ad because of thier wickedness

“But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

why ? Because of thier choices and wicked actions
 
If everyone got what was coming to us, we would all suffer God's wrath.
Yeah but you probably shouldn’t tell people to simply accept what’s true lol then explain why it’s not by avoiding it entirely . If you would accept it maybe the gospel would make more sense to you ….

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what Paul’s teaching regarding judgement

“And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your right every one is doomed that’s why we have to accept the gospel

We need mercy and forgivness and need no condemnation because we’ve all sinned and deserve it

And so

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: …..For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”

its too bad so many reject things like that because they have other ideas it’s the answer for when we all face judgement
 
Yeah but you probably shouldn’t tell people to simply accept what’s true lol then explain why it’s not by avoiding it entirely . If you would accept it maybe the gospel would make more sense to you ….

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what Paul’s teaching regarding judgement

“And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your right every one is doomed that’s why we have to accept the gospel

We need mercy and forgivness and need no condemnation because we’ve all sinned and deserve it

And so

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: …..For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”

its too bad so many reject things like that because they have other ideas it’s the answer for when we all face judgement
None of this is what I have been talking about. I've simply been recounting biblical history. There we find God very stringently dealing with mankind. If one doesn't want to acknowledge that, they can bury their head in the sand. But the God most people imagine is only a fraction of who God is. For whatever reason, that makes people uncomfortable.
 
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None of this is what I have been talking about. I've simply been recounting biblical history. There we find God very stringently dealing with mankind. If one doesn't want to acknowledge that, they can bury their head in the sand. But the God most people imagine is only a fraction of who God is. For whatever reason, that makes people uncomfortable.

“If one doesn't want to acknowledge that, they can bury their head in the sand. But the God most people imagine is only a fraction of who God is. For whatever reason, that makes people uncomfortable”

yeah he also deals very justly according to what they chose to do and tells them about good and evil and the consequences of the choices they make. Like any good parent would do knowing thier children must make choices when they grow up because the truth that people try to bury thier head in the sand because it makes them uncomfortable is
More like this


“Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭


Which seems pretty relevant to clarify so as not to think he’s just randomly by his Will and not thier works and choices. Acting harshly and unjustly . Seems relevant to me relating to what you were saying .

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or evil.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭

It seems relevant because it’s wrath being provoked by man’s actions that comes upon places like soddom and Gomorrah because of thier wickedness, not because he just feels like destroying them or it’s part of some master plan of his Will.

What I had said was all those examples you used were because the people rebelled against god and provoked his wrath seemed relevant

But if you want to see people avoid truth and “bury thier heads in the sand “
lol show them this consistent truth from the Bible. And then watch them duck and cover

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-13‬ ‭
 
nope my real name Gordon ramsbottom, I've been called billy the goat since I was a kid, I've had lots of jokes made about my name and it's stuck with me, kind of like tied into my DNA.

Besides I like goats.

Petty insults don't wind me up,

You should try learning some manners in how to hold a pleasant conversation,

Ignorance ?

I asked you a question, are you to scared to say who you where refering to when you said there was reformed mob at work here ?

Where not just people you can label and categorize in to a box, because are view points on scripture don't like up with yours you know.

You've got a cheek to call me ignorant. If the shoe fits ware it is what I'm seeing from yourself.

Your friend who you feel compelled to stand up for was in the wrong not me. And I shouldn't be made to look bad for his mistakes.

You should own up your own conduct before.you try to find fault in me.

Honestly i can't believe I'm having this discussion with Christians.

I told you my stance on my beliefs, and you want more information from me, to prove to you I'm not this reformed mob person, can you even contemplate how ridiculous that sounds ?
Even if I was was to share any more beliefs with you, you would just no doubt start another argument.

No thanks pal I'm out

Strewth! Maybe you oughta climb down from that high horse before you fall mate. :confused: