Really? So who went to Asia Minor to spread the gospel to the lost before Paul did in Acts 19?
Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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Really? So who went to Asia Minor to spread the gospel to the lost before Paul did in Acts 19?
οὐκ δέχομαι ouk dechomai
"received not The Love of The Truth"
There it is...the cause.......seen again and again in Scripture.
The effect being.....verses 11 and 12.
Conflation is the name of the game when they are not busy rejecting, defecting, contradicting,
denying, and rewriting Scripture. How many times are we told salvation is not by man's will or
a fruit of the flesh, but they cling to vehemently stating otherwise? There is quite a bit said in
the Bible of the natural/unregenerated man but it is like they don't believe a word of it. That they
can choose between salad and fries is all it takes for them to throw over a plethora of Scriptures.
But is does not mean "some" as part of a whole, or a specific number.
"Many" is qualitative not quantitative.
Many is not all. So odd that the obvious has to be pointed out to you. Bizarre even.
Keep in mind.
Demons witnessed to it all unfolding and know things that happened as the Church went on God's offensive.
They know details and facts.
So, just because you can sense you are inspired?
Does not mean it is from God.
So if what you have been inspired to post contradicts the truth? well...
But, on the other hand? You may simply be an evil-minded person with a photographic memory.
You are not fooling anybody.
Your function is to confuse baby Christians.
Not us.
Go back to the play pen.
You are ineffectual here.
No more than a mosquito buzzing around someone's ears who has been sprayed. .
In Calvinism, this is not an issue, the ones who are not "pre-selected" fit themselves for destruction anyway and we should be thankful god even decided to pre-select anyone.
Why this god loves some and not others, no one really knows, we just have to accept it because he is sovereign.
From our perspective, we are making choices. From God's perspective, everything is going as planned.[(QUOTE]
It's so easy to understand. It's like thinking that it is we who choose to believe and be born again. Instead of giving God the glory for our salvation, we choose to give it to ourselves for the choice that we made to believe. John 1: 12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the children of God, even (that is) to them that believe on his name; Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, not of the will of man, but of (because of) God. 1 Cor 1: 29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of (because of) Him (the Father) are ye in Christ Jesus, who of (because of) God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption; That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
In other words, there will be no one in heaven thinking " I made it", "I made the right choices" and "did the right things". It is because of the Father that we are part of the Spiritual Body of Christ and receive all the spiritual blessings of wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption.
It's so easy to understand. It's like thinking that it is we who choose to believe and be born again. Instead of giving God the glory for our salvation, we choose to give it to ourselves for the choice that we made to believe. John 1: 12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the children of God, even (that is) to them that believe on his name; Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, not of the will of man, but of (because of) God. 1 Cor 1: 29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of (because of) Him (the Father) are ye in Christ Jesus, who of (because of) God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption; That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
In other words, there will be no one in heaven thinking " I made it", "I made the right choices" and "did the right things". It is because of the Father that we are part of the Spiritual Body of Christ and receive all the spiritual blessings of wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption.
The larger issue of John is that people come to believe and have life in Christ. Verse 23 obviously agrees with this goal.Exactly right!
And once again CONTEXT is totally ignored in the passage.
John 17:20-23
20 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23 I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
NIV
Jesus in a real sense did pray for the world -- but not the world as FWers understand it! He prayed for the Gentiles who would be evangelized by the Jews and come to believe in him.
1. "Their message" = the gospel initially spread by Jewish believers obeying the Great Commission.
2. "Those who will believe" = Gentiles ("other sheep not of this fold", cf. Jn 10) scattered throughout the world.
3. Both Jewish and Gentiles believers are "in" but not "of" the world, anymore than Jesus was (v. 16).
4. "The world" in v.23 = the world of unbelievers who would learn about Christ by Christian testimony.
5. This world of unbelievers will learn that God had loved BELIEVERS, i.e. "loved THEM" - the same "them" as in v.21
6. The world of unbelievers = those OF this world. These are the devil's children for whom Christ did not pray.
Therefore, God "had loved" both Jewish and Gentile believers who were, are and will be *IN* the world but not *OF* it. Jesus does not say that the Father "sent me and have loved the world even as you have loved me". Therefore, "world" throughout Jn 17 is used in a qualified or limited sense to refer to believers "in" the world as one group, and unbelievers who "of" the world as the second group.
What is your take on v. 23 in the context of the chapter and the larger context of John's entire Gospel?
Throughout the book of John, the author emphasizes the intimate nature of the relationship with Christ as including the entire Godhead, and particularly in conjunction with the Father. You find it in the prayer of Jesus as well as earlier in chapter 14 in which the intimacy of the relationship is spoken of as a tabernacling of Jesus and the Father with the believer.
By the way, FWer's, Jn 17 harmonizes beautifully with:
Matt 1:21
21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."
NIV
And "his people" ain't the world (forgive my vernacular). His people are those Jesus specifically prayed for in Jn 17 and, of course, both flocks of his sheep in John 10.
Matt 1:21
21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."
NIV
And "his people" ain't the world (forgive my vernacular). His people are those Jesus specifically prayed for in Jn 17 and, of course, both flocks of his sheep in John 10.
All men are "totally depraved" by nature. But that doesn't mean that God leaves all men in that condition.
The way they tabernacle is through the Holy Spirit who acts as a portal through which both Father and Son can enter the being indwelled. This happens when you get baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ. When in our beings, they change our motivation for living from love of self to love of God first and all others second. With this love, we will be obeying the Spirit of the Law upon which the Letter of the Law is based. The Father chooses, the Son erases our sins, and the Holy Spirit perfects.
The god of your understanding is unfair, you have made this abundantly
clear despite it being antithetical to what Scripture actually teaches.
His people were the Jews.
He came unto his own, and his own received him not. (John 1:11)
And... He did save them from their sins!
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. (1 Tim 4:10)
No one is going to hell for their personal sins.
Largely agree. I wasn't trying to leave out the Spirit. Just giving a quick answer.
His people consisted far, far more than just the Jews. Jn 10 and Jn 17 both strongly allude to the Abrhamic Covenant. Therefore, "his people" = Abraham's spiritual descendants which consist of Jews and Gentiles -- precisely the two groups prayed for. Also, get up to speed on Rom 4 some day.