Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

Do you give advice because you have no use for it yourself???

Mirror, mirror...

People who say they can see are almost always those who cannot see the beam in their own eye.

 

[HeIsHere]

the living God for being "unrighteous, partial and unjust"?

That is your god not mine, notice the small "g"

I follow the scripture and the life of Jesus, which in and of itself depicts the true nature of God.

 

[Magenta]

People who say they can see are almost always those who cannot see the beam in their own eye.

I forgot to put my hip waders on...

 

[Rufus]

Maybe. Or maybe we just get this one further on track. There are some good minds here shutting down a lot of the Reformed nonsense. And ultimately what I'm dealing with is concerning this pejorative "FW" moniker.

While waiting for others to wake up physically or digitally, I've been working on some of these terminology issues - these theological constructs made by men that are not actually in Scripture but systematic interpretations of Scripture. And before anyone says, what about the "Trinity", I don't think there's much disagreement about the meaning of the word.

However, once we get into constructs like "spiritual death" and "total depravity" and words like "repent" we're dealing with interpretation and traditions and arguing about the meaning of manmade phrases and religious words that are not in the Text.

Furthermore, we're dealing with a lot of Philosophy that was brought into Theology ages ago and some of this has affected what man even is and how God created him and what the fall did to him.

It's all a mess and the one thing about being out of the isolating pews is that forums lie this show how much of a chaotic mess christendom and systematic theology is.

The Text/Word and the Spirit is the purity, and we have both. We need to jettison all the inserted terminology and speak God's language if we want to think like Him and thereby behave as His sons.

I take it that you categorically reject the doctrine of the Trinity since it is one of many "manmade....religious words that is not in the Text"?

 

[Magenta]

I take it that you categorically reject the doctrine of the Trinity since it is one of many "manmade....religious words that is not in the Text"?

It is so odd, we have people here claiming they believe the Bible while we see them repeatedly
rejecting things explicitly stated, and even the very words of Jesus Christ Himself. Oh, and not
simply rejecting, but contradicting and outright denying what Scripture articulates...

 

[Rufus]

That is your god not mine, notice the small "g"

I follow the scripture and the life of Jesus, which in and of itself depicts the true nature of God.

Why can't you answer my questions? You're obviously very comfortable in resting in your fallible, finite carnal reasoning as your final authority for understanding scripture. Every time I press one of you FWers on this matter by giving concrete examples of God's alleged "unfairness", you and your ilk never give answers, which reveals to me just how spiritually impoverished and morally bankrupt your FWT is!

 

[studier]

I take it that you categorically reject the doctrine of the Trinity since it is one of many "manmade....religious words that is not in the Text"?

Which is precisely what I didn't say.

In all seriousness, do you intentionally twist what others say, or as was pointed out here (I'm not using this in regard to you personally but to the issue itself), do you suffer from dyslexia?

And seriously again, though I'm fully aware it doesn't seem like it, I'm asking in sincerity. If we know the issue, then we can work with it.

 

[Rufus]

Here! Once again.....
Jesus was not speaking incoherently.
It means something to be understood.



Luke 9:58-60

Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”​

​

He said to another man, “Follow me.”​

​

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”​

​

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

​

See that?
Spiritually dead!

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

But where does it say they are spiritually dead?????

Figure it out.

So you think Jesus is the Author of the Zombie Apocalypse and was talking about the physically dead?

 

[HeIsHere]

Why can't you answer my questions? You're obviously very comfortable in resting in your fallible, finite carnal reasoning as your final authority for understanding scripture. Every time I press one of you FWers on this matter by giving concrete examples of God's alleged "unfairness", you and your ilk never give answers, which reveals to me just how spiritually impoverished and morally bankrupt your FWT is!

Your question has nothing to do with the plan of salvation.

 

[HeIsHere]

Which is precisely what I didn't say.

In all seriousness, do you intentionally twist what others say, or as was pointed out here (not in regard to you personally), do you suffer from dyslexia?

And seriously again, though I'm fully aware it doesn't seem like it, I'm asking in sincerity. If we know the issue, then we can work with it.

I did a general response on "spiritually dead" in case you missed it, not a deep dive by any means yet.

 

[studier]

I did a general response on "spiritually dead" in case you missed it, not a deep dive by any means yet.

I think I saw it, but can you point me there in case I missed it?

 

[Rufus]

Which is precisely what I didn't say.

In all seriousness, do you intentionally twist what others say, or as was pointed out here (not in regard to you personally), do you suffer from dyslexia?

And seriously again, though I'm fully aware it doesn't seem like it, I'm asking in sincerity. If we know the issue, then we can work with it.

Of course you did! That's why you omitted the self-inciminating portions of your post from my reply. I mean...you were simplistically whining about "manmade, religious" words not found in the bible, were you not? Apparently biblical concepts mean little or nothing to you.

 

[cv5]

Interesting, I did a bit of research enough the exact term "spiritually dead" does not occur in scripture.
I think it is accurate to say that the Greek term for dead needs to be understood in context of the passage.

From Bill Mounce,
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag:
Gloss:
dead (can be used physically or fig., of both persons and things); (n.) dead person, corpse

Definition:
dead, without life, Mt. 11:5; 22:31; met. νεκρός τινι, dead to a thing, no longer devoted to, or under the influence of a thing, Rom. 6:11; dead in respect of fruitlessness, Jas. 2:17, 20, 26; morally or spiritually dead, Rom. 6:13; Eph. 5:14; dead in alienation from God, Eph. 2:1, 5; Col. 2:13; subject to death, mortal, Rom. 8:10; causing death and misery, fatal, having a destructive power, Heb. 6:1; 9:14

Link

If we agree it means alienation from God in some verses, then I think the question becomes what is the impact.
I think it is important to make clear that death is about separation and not functionality as people so with the Lazuras example.
The impact is the capacity to sin.
Thoughts?

Agree. Indubitably.
It's just another super-determinist straw man.

"no longer devoted to"

 

[HeIsHere]

I think I saw it, but can you point me there in case I missed it?

Carry on with Rufus, always good to read how others handle his beliefs.

Here it is #7539

Wow should have proof read it, but I think it mostly makes sense, lol.

 

[cv5]

Why can't you answer my questions? You're obviously very comfortable in resting in your fallible, finite carnal reasoning as your final authority for understanding scripture. Every time I press one of you FWers on this matter by giving concrete examples of God's alleged "unfairness", you and your ilk never give answers, which reveals to me just how spiritually impoverished and morally bankrupt your FWT is!

It appears that super-determinists take losing very poorly. I expect that your rancor will scale with your failures.

 

[Kroogz]

It is so odd, we have people here claiming they believe the Bible while we see them repeatedly
rejecting things explicitly stated, and even the very words of Jesus Christ Himself. Oh, and not
simply rejecting, but contradicting and outright denying what Scripture articulates...

Yes. These are constantly denied and rejected......
1 Tim 2:4
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pet 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Cor 5:19
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

 

[Rufus]

Your question has nothing to do with the plan of salvation.

Oh but it does! Are you so blind that you missed what I asked about Issac and Jacob and Ishmael and Esau. I purposely included that question in my post anticipating your above inane response. Furthermore, it's perfectly legitimate to appeal to Natural Revelation (reality as we all know it in Temporal Reality), since this revelation also thoroughly refutes your naive idea that God must treat all people equally, lest he be "unrighteous, unfair, unjust. Life simply doesn't work that way.

But you won't answer because you can't come up with any judicial basis behind your blasphemous accusations against God for either scenario. That's OK -- You're in good company since GWH never could either even though I asked him many times to justify the same stupid and senseless accusations against God.

 

[HeIsHere]

Yes. These are constantly denied and rejected......
1 Tim 2:4
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pet 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Cor 5:19
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Amen and.....

• 2 Chronicles 19:7, ‘Now therefore, let the fear of the Lord be upon you; take care and do it, for there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, no partiality, nor taking of bribes’.
• Job 36:5, ‘Behold, God is mighty, and does not despise any; he is mighty in strength of understanding’.
• Acts 10:34, ‘So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality’.
• Romans 2:11, ‘For God shows no partiality’.
• 1 Timothy 2:4 states that God our Saviour ‘desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth’.
• James 1:17, ‘Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change’.
• James 3:17, ‘But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere’.
• 1 Peter 1:17, ‘And if you call on him as Father who judges impartially according to each one’s deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile’.

 

[cv5]

Here! Once again.....
Jesus was not speaking incoherently.
It means something to be understood.



Luke 9:58-60

Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”​

​

He said to another man, “Follow me.”​

​

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”​

​

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

​

See that?
Spiritually dead!

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

But where does it say they are spiritually dead?????

Figure it out.

The inquiring precocious mind sees the "dividing" occurring in this verse in real time.

Guess it went over the heads of the super-determinists though. But then again, when you have Calvinism glasses on, how could you possibly see it?

 

[Rufus]

It appears that super-determinists take losing very poorly. I expect that your rancor will scale with your failures.

The only losers on this thread are the FWers who cannot answer tough questions. And I know you don't have the backbone to take up GWH's or HIH's slack. I think you FWers might have been very instrumental in motivating someone to come up with the phrase "empty suit".