Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Pilgrimshope]

Why?

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:24‬ ‭

she’s warning then that they’re going to die if they don’t believe


“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Warning they shall perish unless they repent

you don’t teach this to the dead already earning then they’ll die if they don’t believe

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Which means what?

Which means what?

And the chase is on !

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I really don't know if any of us have a deep enough appreciation for Scripture like Jer17:5...

There is so much hope, trust, persuasion by men in other men that has been passed down to us in translations and interpretations and differing systematic doctrines that we have been and are persuaded by and use daily that the corporate maturity and same-thinking that Paul speaks of seems very far off.

The only thing that makes sense to me in this respect is that He knows those who are His, at every level, no matter where they are in every generation, and just like the Remnant, He has them in place and in reserve. This is just a very simple overview of what I mean by and include in it.

yes we definately don’t know everything we can or could know , only a drop in the bucket really bit he’s made known in the gospel everything we need to know to be saved . Which is why believing the gospel is what saves

And yes the thing is god onows sinners as well it’s how he’s able to judge them righteously the spirit of mankind was given by god and it functions within us so god knows every fiber of a man good and evil . There’s nothing that’s hidden from his sight

yes god knows those who are his he knows all things even the darkest deed of man buried in the deepest sea is fully known to god

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes our God is great! His plan will not fail and all things will come to pass in time according to the schedule that He set in place. Amazing, isn't it?
It's also amazing that man is so corrupt as to think that he must assist God in any way.

Yeah I mean believing what god said to believe and do , doesn’t really seem like a bad idea. But rejecting it does seem like a bad idea

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Ephesians 2 v 4-7 ~ Because of His great love for us, God, Who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Genez]

Where does Scripture state this "spiritually dead"?

What does "spiritually dead" mean?

Here! Once again.....
Jesus was not speaking incoherently.
It means something to be understood.



Luke 9:58-60

Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”​

​

He said to another man, “Follow me.”​

​

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”​

​

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

​

See that?
Spiritually dead!

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

But where does it say they are spiritually dead?????

Figure it out.

 

[Genez]

Why?

God is spirit! Those who worship Him must do so in "spirit" and Truth.

John 4:24

We have to have a human spirit to worship God.

John 3:6

 

[studier]

yes we definately don’t know everything we can or could know , only a drop in the bucket really bit he’s made known in the gospel everything we need to know to be saved . Which is why believing the gospel is what saves

My immediate concern is not "could" so much as "should".

It's interesting you bring up the Gospel in this light. Not too long ago I came to the point where all the theology seemed unimportant, relatively speaking, and the fact that I know and believe and am committed and subordinate to as deeply as I know, what Paul teaches and refers to as the [only or one] foundation - Jesus = Christ (1Cor3:10-11) was the main thing.

And because of Paul's evangelistic ministry which pointed hearers to Psalm2 and YHWH's resurrected Christ/King (Acts13:30-33), I know what Jesus = Christ means.

I think we're both saying God has made this pretty simple. If not, I know you can explain and do so respectfully.

 

[studier]

Here! Once again.....
Jesus was not speaking incoherently.
It means something to be understood.



Luke 9:58-60

Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”​

​

He said to another man, “Follow me.”​

​

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”​

​

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

​

See that?
Spiritually dead!

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

But where does it say they are spiritually dead?????

Figure it out.

I think I have figured it out.

And I think I know what you think "spiritually dead" means, at least in part, because I know you pastor taught both of us his dichotomous viewpoint.

So, since I know what you know, or at least much of what you likely know, or maybe more, I know you can explain the construct "spiritually dead" at least to the degree you've been taught and maybe beyond from your own studies.

And then I likely know you may get some opposition to dichotomy, and I think I know why, from both the other dichotomy view(s) and from trichotomy view(s).

At the end of all of this, do you think your understanding of the construct "spiritually dead" is the same as others who also use this man-devised phrase?

 

[Rufus]

If a believer walks in the Spirit and by God's grace evades the whiles of the unbeliever?
It will be the unbeliever who calls him lucky.

So...are you a believer or unbeliever?" If the former, why do you emulate the latter with such am ill-conceived question?

 

[Rufus]

Ouch felt that one, what does ftfy mean anyways surely not anything mean?

It means Fixed That For You.

 

[studier]

God is spirit! Those who worship Him must do so in "spirit" and Truth.

John 4:24

We have to have a human spirit to worship God.

John 3:6

To be meaningful to me, I'd have to ask you to better explain to whoever cares why John 4:24 is translated with a small "s".

Then I'd have to ask you to explain why John3:6 would apparently (from what you seem to be saying) be telling us that fallen men have no or have no functional human spirit.

 

[HeIsHere]

Life is so unfair, isn't it? God has every right to do with His grace and the people upon this earth, whom He owns, as He sees fit. Read the Parable of the Workers some day...perhaps you'll learn something.

Translation:

The nature of my god is that he has the right to be un-righteous, partial and unjust.

Therefore god's love and goodness IS partial for those who believe he IS partial with his love and goodness.

If you want to join in and be part of the Partial Club go to a church which has adopted the Partial Club doctrine.

 

[Rufus]

You mean Jesus told him the Gospel and he believed?

Yes! And the blind man didn't learn that from mere flesh and blood, just like Peter didn't. He had very special revelation given to him by a very Special Person who gives understanding. And we shouldn't be surprised since Jesus sought him out. The blind man was very obviously one of God's elect whom God determined in eternity would glorify Him.

 

[Genez]

I think I have figured it out.

And I think I know what you think "spiritually dead" means, at least in part, because I know you pastor taught both of us his dichotomous viewpoint.

So, since I know what you know, or at least much of what you likely know, or maybe more, I know you can explain the construct "spiritually dead" at least to the degree you've been taught and maybe beyond from your own studies.

And then I likely know you may get some opposition to dichotomy, and I think I know why, from both the other dichotomy view(s) and from trichotomy view(s).

At the end of all of this, do you think your understanding of the construct "spiritually dead" is the same as others who also use this man-devised phrase?

Who the heck cares?
If it is right and true.

Did Jesus chase around those who rejected the truth as to make them see it?

​

​

“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”​

​

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”​

​

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you ​

by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.​

It must come from the Spirit!
Not irrefutable logic alone!

The dichotomous will just not get it.
They are not equiped to do so.

And, if a believer walks in religious pride?
He will function no better than the dichotomous.
But, with one exception.
He may quote Scripture to make his point, but being just as dead to the Truth.

​

But He gives greater grace. ​

Therefore He says:​

​

“God resists the proud, (makes war against the religious type)​

But gives grace to the humble.”​

​

Therefore, submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. James 4:6-7​

​

Only the humble will find themselves led in grace to keep finding greater and greater amounts of truth to live by, and to live in.

It is a simple plan.

 

[studier]

Yes! And the blind man didn't learn that from mere flesh and blood, just like Peter didn't. He had very special revelation given to him by a very Special Person who gives understanding. And we shouldn't be surprised since Jesus sought him out. The blind man was very obviously one of God's elect whom God determined in eternity would glorify Him.

That's one point of view. As we all know by now, there are others.

 

[Genez]

So...are you a believer or unbeliever?" If the former, why do you emulate the latter with such am ill-conceived question?

Rufus.... go back to your gang.
Your technique will work with them.
Not here.

 

[studier]

Who the heck cares?
If it is right and true.

I do.
"If" being 1st, 2nd, or 3rd class?

And, if you're asserting that other Christians are not equipped or are prideful for wanting to know the Truth that you may or may not have correct, then how are you any better than others in different camps who say the same thing about you and the pastor you've chosen to sit under - how are you any different than what Paul is dealing with in 1Cor3, 'well my pastor says...'?

 

[Magenta]

If you'd jettison the pejorative shots at Christians who read Scripture differently than you, you'd be a lot more interesting to read.

Do you give advice because you have no use for it yourself???

The bad habits and behavior around here are out of control, very captivating, and a horrible witness.

Mirror, mirror...

 

[Rufus]

Translation:

The nature of my god is that he has the right to be un-righteous, partial and unjust.

Therefore god's love and goodness IS partial for those who believe he IS partial with his love and goodness.

If you want to join in and be part of the Partial Club go to a church which has adopted the Partial Club doctrine.

So, God is indebted to mankind to save all or provided opportunities for all to potentially become saved? On what judicial basis do you blaspheme the living God for being "unrighteous, partial and unjust"? What is the judicial basis for your accusation that God is partial?

True story: Just yesterday I read a very sad story about a woman who abused her NINE (9) small children by forcing them to live in squalor, filth, hunger, malnourishment and overall poor health. Meanwhile, other kids with other families have it much better. Explain to me how God is "unrighteous, partial and unjust" for decreeing that the nine kids have the kind of broken home and a grossly irresponsible and unloving mother on one hand, while on the other He also decreed in eternity that many other kids have a much better lifestyle with better parents.

Or...more true stories from the bible: How was God "unrighteous, partial and unjust" in decreeing in eternity that Issac and Jacob would participate in the inheritance of the Abrahamic Covenant, while rejecting Ishmael and Esau from this same covenant.