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Scripturally: 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, (Heb. 5:9 NKJ). Interesting how this phrase is used in relation to obedience to Jesus Christ.
The eternal aspect is really throughout in the same sense as when Paul instructs that we've been raised and seated together with Jesus Christ. This is the already and not yet thread that runs through the Text.
So, we talk about positional concepts and having things now while also we talk about things that are later. And then we debate about terminology like being saved and concepts within such.
It's fun I guess...But then in discussions like these:
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. (1 Jn. 3:15 NKJ)
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Believer08
Guest
One individual believes Hebrews 5:9 doesn’t make obedience conditional for salvation.
It's not unusual for people not to understand the parallelism of faith and obedience, but it is a problem that causes other problems for properly understanding the Bible. It's part of the reason behind some of these arguments re: faith and works. We can compare these verses with Heb5:9:
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”
The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Ro 10:16.
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), 2 Th 1:8.
17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), 1 Pe 4:17.
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Believer08
Guest
Amen…and it’s typically the same ones who outright refuse to say what works justified Abraham and Rahab.
Rewards are placement in God's kingdom. Yes, there will be no sorrow in heaven. But we are encouraged to work for rewards, as with the parable of the talents. God accepts all who are born again into heaven. In reality, we are already there spiritually. (Ephesians 2:6)
My desire is to able to say, as Paul did, that I have run the race that God had for me. We are all different and it's not helpful to compare ourselves with another (one of my many weaknesses).
Maybe it helps if the term, Justification, is given its biblical definition.
Poppycock!
He was never alive until he returned home? Is that true of the older son as well?
Can you not see to what absurd lengths you have to go to ln order to defend such nonsense?
Simple rubbish.
The Godhead?
You need help. I mean it, you need help.
No thanks.
I will stay clear of that ditch.
Salvation?
It's not even mentioned in the story.
It is plain to see you are attempting to change the subject and muddy up the water.
I will not play your game.
Esau gave up his promised birthright. He regretted it later but lost it never the less.
Your reasoning is bogus. You just don't have a honest heart to admit it.
The older son was dead too. He was a picture of the Israel...in the Father's house but without a real relationship to Him.
And if you are going to understand the Bible correctly, get the whole context of a passage. The greater context of Luke 15 is the entire 3 part parable.
There is nothing in the verbiage that states the older son was dead. The father calls the older son as "you are always with me".
Both sons were always dead??? You do not understand the parable as well as you think.
The father describes the younger son as "alive again" The younger son was alive and became dead and alive again.
You are either making this up or using esoteric knowledge.
You are a false teacher. In the ditch you will stay.
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Believer08
Guest
I have read many of your posts. Your reasoning is sound. Keep up the noble work.
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Believer08
Guest
Ughh…the ole “never had it” argument. They say that when they realize that their doctrine is false. They’d rather not admit that someone walked away..so they’d just say they were never saved…what a weak cop out.
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Believer08
Guest
God has made all things for himself, yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. (Prov. 16:4)
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Believer08
Guest
So does God choose hell for whoever He wants to go there? Do the individuals have no choice in the matter? They are thereby eternally decreed to be damned?
You know what? I believe a person can believe they are saved and not truly be saved because they believe OSAS. I have a friend who goes out often and drinks, parties and sleeps with as many woman that will let him. I have have warned him that his walk with Jesus can not be true. He told me that he eccepted Jesus many years ago and that he is saved. He let me know that he is once saved alway saved. Now this is not something he has been doing just a few times struggling with sin in his life, this has been his life style for a long while.
Now unless you are saying my friend is saved while continuing to live like this. then he is a dead man walking and needs to repent of his life style so he can be saved. He really believes he is save because of OSAS. On the other hand if you believe my friend is saved while continuing to live this life style, then you and me believe in 2 different Jesuses.