The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”

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Dec 20, 2023
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Pretty clear that Paul did not believe in the doctrine of once saved always saved.

Gal. 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
The question is not have you done enough, or even if you can persevere in your own strength! The question is did Christ himself do enough, and will He ever let go of those that He died for?
If you have truly placed your trust in Him rather than yourself, then I believe you are in good hands!
 

lrs68

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Dec 30, 2024
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Jesus gave us the Great Commission and we read in the Gospels if we are truly followers and love Him we will obey Him.

I wonder how many profess accepting His Gift but refuse to make Disciples?

If no one is obeying Jesus, how can they claim they truly love Him :unsure:
 
Jan 27, 2025
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One does not need to dive into the Greek to understand clear cut passages. Sometimes it helps and can be quite beneficial, but on clear cut passages like Gal. 5:3-4, it’s pretty plain. It refutes the false doctrine of OSAS (the impossibility of apostasy), but as always, people want to say it doesn’t mean what it says and it doesn’t mean what it means. As stated in John 8:32, we shall know the truth, can prove all things (1 Thess. 5:21; 1 Peter 3:15). Jesus expected people to understand Him (Mk. 7:14). Regular people can accomplish this (2 Timothy 3:16,17; Acts 17:11; Ephesians 5:17). The Bible was written for fishermen, farmers, tent makers, and the poor to be able to understand.

A lot of times, people who go to the original language to prove something ends up proving something that cannot be proven in the scriptures. Or, they use a word or meaning of one that gives a different “spin” on what the original meaning has. In other words, their goal was to establish what cannot be found in the English texts. Any practice that can only be verified by studying the original Greek should be immediately suspect.

Without learning Greek or Hebrew, the average individual can learn the meaning of Bible words in three different ways: (1) Context, (2) Translations, and (3) Additional passages.

Romans 5:20-21 clearly states that God's grace reigns through righteousness. Righteousness is in the saving message of Christ— the gospel, clearly stated in Romans 1:16-17. As a result, falling from grace (Gal. 5:3-4) entails losing access to the gospel's sin-cleansing blessings! In other words, all individuals who attempted to revert to the weak and beggarly features of apostate Judaism (Galatians 4:9), although having been baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:26-29), had ceased to walk in the light and began to walk in darkness (1 John 1:5-10). They needed to repent and pray (Acts 8:22). The erring brethren of the church in Galatia or elsewhere could return at any time, but they had to do so in the manner prescribed by God in the gospel.
 
Jan 27, 2025
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The question is not have you done enough, or even if you can persevere in your own strength! The question is did Christ himself do enough, and will He ever let go of those that He died for?
If you have truly placed your trust in Him rather than yourself, then I believe you are in good hands!
Christ did enough. I don’t dispute that. I believe His sacrifice and resurrection was completely sufficient for man’s sins. It’s not about whether Christ will ever let go of the ones who follow Him (Jn. 10:27-28), but will any of those who follow Him let go of Him? Do we have any scriptures of someone following Jesus (before or after His crucifixion and resurrection)? Sadly, we do. The warnings in Galatians…the book of Hebrews…2 Peter…John 15…and many more…either give warnings about what would happen or tell what what has happened to those who have made that choice. I do not deny the power of God (1 Peter 1:5), and I have stated elsewhere that I believe in the eternal security of the believer (1 Jn. 5:13), but just because one is saved does not mean they will always remain or abide in the vine—which is Jesus (Jn. 15:5-6)
 
Sep 2, 2020
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Pretty clear that Paul did not believe in the doctrine of once saved always saved.

Gal. 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Amen he constantly warned of judgement and exhorted the church to repentance and remission of sins in his name.

But people take sentences from his letters and make up doctrines to pull people away from the truth in his doctrine

“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:15-18‬
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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The Scripture “those” cite teach that God is love or all-loving so if He were going to “keep” you from repudiating saving faith you would be no freer than a robot but rather lacking the moral free will that enables humans to love or hate.
Why is it so hard to understand the difference between being born again and the ongoing salvation of the soul? Being born again is just that. It is instant and irreversible. God will not reject the born again spirit. It is possible to lose everything in the souls realm but enter into heaven. Such a person will have no placement in God's kingdom. This life is preparation for the next. Many will suffer great loss because they've held onto self and not allowed God to change them.

To be born again is instant and costs nothing. To be a spiritual person takes a lifetime and costs everything. But that person gains in God's kingdom far greater rewards than the person who refuses to allow God to change them.
 
Jun 29, 2024
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These aren't conditional statements. Rather, they are simply statements of fact. An individual who through an act of the will stops taking part in the pollution of the world aren't subject to the corruption that brings. But that doesn't change their nature. They are simply a cleaner version of what they were before. The proof that their nature hasn't changed is that they return to their former ways. Conversely, those who have become new creations do possess a new and divine nature and will, because of the work of the Spirit walk more and more in the new nature.

Many conflate the actions of individuals with the actions of God. Where God is active, there may be relapses, God has promised His children success...Philippians 1:6.

Also, if the maintenance of salvation is the responsibility of the individual, then salvation is ultimately of works.
OH MY GOODNESS! What in the world is wrong with the way people interpret the Bible. The Bible give plenty of warnings. If i wrote a letter warning my kids to stay away from danger. I would not want you people interpreting my letter for them.
 
Jan 27, 2025
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OH MY GOODNESS! What in the world is wrong with the way people interpret the Bible. The Bible give plenty of warnings. If i wrote a letter warning my kids to stay away from danger. I would not want you people interpreting my letter for them.
Heh..
 
Feb 15, 2025
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OH MY GOODNESS! What in the world is wrong with the way people interpret the Bible. The Bible give plenty of warnings. If i wrote a letter warning my kids to stay away from danger. I would not want you people interpreting my letter for them.
You aren't adding anything that provides clarification as far as what you believe people have misunderstood about the Bible there.

Do you have anything to say that is constructive and related to the thread topic itself?
 
Nov 12, 2024
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The truth of fellowship, discipline and sanctification is lost in "loss of salvation."

In light of these truths, read them. Rather than going into the verse reading"loss of salvation" read "loss of fellowship."

The prodigal son was dead to the father in regards to fellowship......He always remained the fathers son.
The prodigal son was labeled by the father as a dead son and a lost son. You are simply trying to sugar coat their relationship with such nonsense as "regards to fellowship".

Dead is dead and lost is lost. If the prodigal son had not returned to his senses and walked back to the father, he would have stayed a dead and lost son.

Ecclesiastes 9:4
Anyone who is among the living has hope —even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!

There is no reward for a dead son, regardless of who the father is.
 
Jan 27, 2025
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The prodigal son was labeled by the father as a dead son and a lost son. You are simply trying to sugar coat their relationship with such nonsense as "regards to fellowship".

Dead is dead and lost is lost. If the prodigal son had not returned to his senses and walked back to the father, he would have stayed a dead and lost son.

Ecclesiastes 9:4
Anyone who is among the living has hope —even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!

There is no reward for a dead son, regardless of who the father is.
The twisting the scriptures to their own destruction is strong with some…
 
Nov 12, 2024
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You aren't adding anything that provides clarification as far as what you believe people have misunderstood about the Bible there.

Do you have anything to say that is constructive and related to the thread topic itself?
I see his point very clearly.

If salvation cannot be lost by our actions then warnings directed at Christians have no meaning.

The forgiveness given to the servant was taken back because of his actions. Matthew 18:21-35
 
Nov 12, 2024
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These aren't conditional statements. Rather, they are simply statements of fact. An individual who through an act of the will stops taking part in the pollution of the world aren't subject to the corruption that brings. But that doesn't change their nature. They are simply a cleaner version of what they were before. The proof that their nature hasn't changed is that they return to their former ways. Conversely, those who have become new creations do possess a new and divine nature and will, because of the work of the Spirit walk more and more in the new nature.

Many conflate the actions of individuals with the actions of God. Where God is active, there may be relapses, God has promised His children success...Philippians 1:6.

Also, if the maintenance of salvation is the responsibility of the individual, then salvation is ultimately of works.
Conflate this:
The prodigal son was alive but became dead by his own actions.
The prodigal son was dead but became alive by his own actions.

Conflate this:
The servant's debt was forgiven by the master. The forgiven debt was real.
The same master took back the forgiven debt. The revoking of the forgiveness was real.

And stop conflating works with obedience.
 
Jan 27, 2025
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I see his point very clearly.

If salvation cannot be lost by our actions then warnings directed at Christians have no meaning.

The forgiveness given to the servant was taken back because of his actions. Matthew 18:21-35
Be careful…or else you’ll get accused by them of relying on your own goodness..trusting in your own ability to save yourself…since you believe actions have something to do with our salvation…

People accuse us of believing we earn salvation since we believe one must obey to be saved. They think we are relying on our own ability to be saved, thinking that we can boast. They want to say if we (or anyone) is having to obey in order for God to save us, then we are trusting and relying on our own self. Ridiculous.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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3,487
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Frankston, Victoria
christianlife.au
Christ did enough. I don’t dispute that. I believe His sacrifice and resurrection was completely sufficient for man’s sins. It’s not about whether Christ will ever let go of the ones who follow Him (Jn. 10:27-28), but will any of those who follow Him let go of Him? Do we have any scriptures of someone following Jesus (before or after His crucifixion and resurrection)? Sadly, we do. The warnings in Galatians…the book of Hebrews…2 Peter…John 15…and many more…either give warnings about what would happen or tell what what has happened to those who have made that choice. I do not deny the power of God (1 Peter 1:5), and I have stated elsewhere that I believe in the eternal security of the believer (1 Jn. 5:13), but just because one is saved does not mean they will always remain or abide in the vine—which is Jesus (Jn. 15:5-6)
The danger, especially for new Christians, is constant introspection, worrying if you are still saved or not. The devil will accuse people, trying to rob them of their experience of salvation. You cannot be "unborn" again.

The answer is not to worry or fret, but to "look to Jesus, the Author and Finisher" of our faith.
 
Feb 15, 2025
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I see his point very clearly.

If salvation cannot be lost by our actions then warnings directed at Christians have no meaning.

The forgiveness given to the servant was taken back because of his actions. Matthew 18:21-35
That chapter dealt with forgiveness and family and community members. If we cannot forgive those who wrong us,how can we expect to be forgiven our wrongs?

It isn't talking about Salvation being able to be lost. Else Romans 11:29 is wrong.