At this point we now have hard-core Calvinites who......don't want to be called Calvinites.
I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing......but it's probably a bad thing.
Understanding God’s election
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I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing......but it's probably a bad thing.
Calvinites are propagating/perpetuating their "Reformed" TRADITIONS.
How then did Jesus deal with Israel's bogus hypocritical traditions that enslaved the masses and stood in the way of salvation?
1) He warned about them
2) He condemned of them
3) He destroyed them
Which is of course exactly what you, I and others are endeavoring to do.
1 Corinthians 4:7b; John 3:27; Romans 9:15-16 What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
The true Light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though
the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own did
not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to
become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.
AMEN! I can relate to your testimony. When I fell to my knees to ask God for help, I had ZERO faith in the Word of God! But even more than that...my prayer itself was quite agnostic in nature. I recall distinctly starting my prayer with: "God, if you're up there and can hear me..." Not exactly a prayer of faith! Yet...God mercifully and compassionately honored my prayer. He did indeed answer over time.
I just learned something new. Never heard of that belief system. But it sounds about right...
My cry for help arose rather spontaneously from the depth of my being as I sat down to write out my feelings
over a recurring issue that was causing great distress in my life... I was so sick and tired of those feelings...
1 Corinthians 4:7b; John 3:27; Romans 9:15-16 What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
The true Light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though
the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own did
not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to
become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.
That passage definitely can't be right! No self-respecting, card-carrying, man-exalting freewiller would ever admit to that. The new birth is entirely up to the sinner since their eternal destiny is totally in their hands. How could the apostle gotten that so wrong...? And that passage reminds me of what Paul said in Rom 9:
Rom 9:15-16
15 For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
NIV
Well, according to them, John was wrong! And Paul must have been also... according to them. As well as Jesus. For they have
the flesh agreeing with spiritual things to which Scripture says they are opposed, and have a bad tree producing good fruit.
This seems to be why some must also reject that there are none good, and claim that man is not such a bad guy after all.
Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
P
ParticularWife
Guest
Even on a philosophical level free will is probably nonsense, and it's also irrelevant to the question of total depravity and intentional behavior. This is a dead end philosophical argument that people only bring up for axe grinding, though, so this is the last I'll say of it. I don't take this nonsense seriously and there's no point in debating someone invested in their feelings about muhFreedumb. This kind of question doesn't actually bother me, I don't even care. I think it's ridiculous that you people are so obsessed with it, especially because these arguments are basically terrible.
Jesus came to give sight to the blind, unstop the ears of the deaf, and raise the dead to new life in Him.
If you have ears to hear and eyes to see, you should be thanking Him and not your imaginary free will.
Matthew 13:16-17 Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
Luke 4:18-19 The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, 19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.
What does the hearing consist in? Physical hearing? Understanding? Revelation?
What do you make of Matthew 16:16-18?
[QUOTE="ParticularWife, post: 5429590, member: 337131"]Even on a philosophical level free will is probably nonsense, and it's also irrelevant to the question of total depravity and intentional behavior. This is a dead end philosophical argument that people only bring up for axe grinding, though, so this is the last I'll say of it. I don't take this nonsense seriously and there's no point in debating someone invested in their feelings about muhFreedumb. This kind of question doesn't actually bother me, I don't even care. I think it's ridiculous that you people are so obsessed with it, especially because these arguments are basically terrible.[/QUOTE]
In a sense, you're right. However, what would be really comical, if it weren't so sad, is that even God Almighty Himself cannot possibly have "freewill" since his choices are clearly restricted by his thrice holy nature! He cannot lie (or commit any other sin!) and he cannot deny himself. So...by freewillers' definition of "freewill" (the ability to make choices contrary to our nature), God's will cannot possibly be free!
And the same applies for the saints' eternal state after the Parousia. Since God will eradicate all sin in the new earth, no saint will be able to sin either! This means the saints in eternity will not have "freewill" either. I can't imagine how any freewiller will be able to enjoy the visible, eternal kingdom in which people won't be able to choose to sin. How would they be able to stand total, complete, final, eternal freedom from sin? They might already be secretly thinking in their heart, "How utterly boring the eternal, visible kingdom will be without at least a little hanky panky".
In a sense, you're right. However, what would be really comical, if it weren't so sad, is that even God Almighty Himself cannot possibly have "freewill" since his choices are clearly restricted by his thrice holy nature! He cannot lie (or commit any other sin!) and he cannot deny himself. So...by freewillers' definition of "freewill" (the ability to make choices contrary to our nature), God's will cannot possibly be free!
And the same applies for the saints' eternal state after the Parousia. Since God will eradicate all sin in the new earth, no saint will be able to sin either! This means the saints in eternity will not have "freewill" either. I can't imagine how any freewiller will be able to enjoy the visible, eternal kingdom in which people won't be able to choose to sin. How would they be able to stand total, complete, final, eternal freedom from sin? They might already be secretly thinking in their heart, "How utterly boring the eternal, visible kingdom will be without at least a little hanky panky".
