Being born of water and Spirit

[Magenta]

I reject your interpretation of what Jesus said. I accept what Jesus said.

Jesus did not say what you have claimed. I do not know why you pretend otherwise
aside from a desire to bolster your argument which you believe to be unique.

Christ said water baptism is righteous

Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.”

*****************************

Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.

New Living Translation
But Jesus said, “It should be done, for we must carry out all that God requires.” So John agreed to baptize him.

English Standard Version
But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented.

Berean Study Bible
“Let it be so now,” Jesus replied. “It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness in this way.” Then John permitted Him.

Berean Literal Bible
But Jesus answering, said unto him, "Permit it presently; for thus it is fitting to us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he permits Him.

King James Bible
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

New King James Version
But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.

New American Standard Bible
But Jesus, answering, said to him, “Allow it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.

NASB 1995
But Jesus answering said to him, “Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he permitted Him.

NASB 1977
But Jesus answering said to him, “Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he permitted Him.

Amplified Bible
But Jesus replied to him, “Permit it just now; for this is the fitting way for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John permitted [it and baptized] Him.

Christian Standard Bible
Jesus answered him, “Allow it for now, because this is the way for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John allowed him to be baptized.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Jesus answered him, “Allow it for now, because this is the way for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him to be baptized.

American Standard Version
But Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffereth him.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But Yeshua answered and said to him, “Allow this now, for it is proper for us to fulfill all justice”, and then he allowed him.

Contemporary English Version
Jesus answered, "For now this is how it should be, because we must do all God wants us to do." Then John agreed.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And Jesus answering, said to him: Suffer it to be so now. For so it becometh us to fulfill all justice. Then he suffered him.

Good News Translation
But Jesus answered him, "Let it be so for now. For in this way we shall do all that God requires." So John agreed.

International Standard Version
But Jesus answered him, "Let it be this way for now, because this is the proper way for us to fulfill all righteousness." At this, he permitted him to be baptized.

Literal Standard Version
But Jesus answering said to him, “Permit [it] now, for thus it is fitting to us to fulfill all righteousness,” then he permits Him.

New American Bible
Jesus said to him in reply, “Allow it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed him.

NET Bible
So Jesus replied to him, "Let it happen now, for it is right for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then John yielded to him.

New Revised Standard Version
But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now; for it is proper for us in this way to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented.

New Heart English Bible
But Jesus, answering, said to him, "Allow it to happen now, for this is the proper way for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed him.

Weymouth New Testament
"Let it be so on this occasion," Jesus replied; "for so we ought to fulfil every religious duty." Then he consented;

World English Bible
But Jesus, answering, said to him, "Allow it now, for this is the fitting way for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed him.

Young's Literal Translation
But Jesus answering said to him, 'Suffer now, for thus it is becoming to us to fulfil all righteousness,' then he doth suffer him.

 

[DavidTree]

Nicodemus was referring to the title of "Born From Above". It was a designation of a group of individuals from Israel's history. Nicodemus did not know that he specifically was mentioned in a prophecy before he was born. (A specific requirement of Born From Above)

That's where the confusion comes into play...
When the first English lessons and translations into English were made...the ancient Anthropology was unknown at the time. So a mistranslation happened.

And perpetuated by well meaning people.

There is an Authoritative Eternal Reason why the LORD mentioned both the natural birth through water and the Supernatural birth thru the SPIRIT.

 

[JohnDB]

There is an Authoritative Eternal Reason why the LORD mentioned both the natural birth through water and the Supernatural birth thru the SPIRIT.

I flat out dont understand a word you are saying.

Only Nicodemus mentioned physical birth. Jesus was referring to a title...

 

[DavidTree]

I flat out dont understand a word you are saying.

Only Nicodemus mentioned physical birth. Jesus was referring to a title...

It's OK my Brother, i may start a Thread to show Why the LORD specified the natural birth and then separated it from the SPIRIT Birth.

The problem here(not you) is that too many start threads purely from a 'whim' of something they read and believe from the bible without an exhaustive study on the subject and a 'kneel down' before the LORD and HIS WORD.

 

[DavidTree]

I flat out dont understand a word you are saying.

Only Nicodemus mentioned physical birth. Jesus was referring to a title...

Correction on my Post #62

Should read this way =

Eternal
Authoritative
Reason(Rule)

"Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you—" Isaiah 55:3

 

[DavidTree]

I flat out dont understand a word you are saying.

Only Nicodemus mentioned physical birth. Jesus was referring to a title...

The LORD Jesus Christ absolutely mentioned natural birth when HE said: the 'flesh'

That which is born of the flesh is flesh,
and = (separation)
that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[DavidTree]

I flat out dont understand a word you are saying.

Only Nicodemus mentioned physical birth. Jesus was referring to a title...

The LORD Jesus never referred to a 'title'.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh,
and = (separation)
that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

This is a REAL ETERNAL BIRTH and not a mere 'title'

 

[Magenta]

I have gathered a sampling of a few of your posts to show you are veering off your stated course
of accepting what Scripture clearly says without putting a spin on it such as you are doing now.

Why not just accept what the Scripture clearly says?

I accept whatever the Bible says.

It's not a spin. I only accept the most literal renderings of the texts when there isn't a clear reason to see something spiritualized or symbolic.

You either don't understand what you're reading or refuse to accept what it says, or both.

I can’t agree with what you’re saying because it doesn’t hold Biblical consistency.

If you had the Biblical support I would eagerly and glad accept it. It’s not there.

It matters not that these posts may concern some other topic or doctrine in Scripture.

You have changed the words of Jesus.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The most obvious meaning of this passage is that Jesus is talking about water baptism and the new birth by the Holy Spirit.

"Nicodemus said to Him, 'How can a man be born, being old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?' Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.' "—John 3:4-6

Nicodemus asks Him how a person can enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born. It's at this point that Jesus explains to him the new birth more correctly. That is, it doesn't involve a new physical birth but one by baptism and the Holy Spirit. Some interpret the "water" as amniotic fluid but this just doesn't work. Jesus is talking about how to be born again, not how one is born of flesh. Besides it's pointless to say that "unless one is born of water" (meaning amniotic fluid) "he cannot enter the kingdom of God." It goes without saying that if a person was never born they wouldn't even be around to ask how to be born again. It's just a ridiculous interpretation.

Just because Jesus distinguishes between flesh and Spirit that doesn't mean that baptism isn't included. Baptism is the mechanism through which the Spirit brings about the new birth.

 

[DavidTree]

The most obvious meaning of this passage is that Jesus is talking about water baptism and the new birth by the Holy Spirit.

"Nicodemus said to Him, 'How can a man be born, being old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?' Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.' "—John 3:4-6

Nicodemus asks Him how a person can enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born. It's at this point that Jesus explains to him the new birth more correctly. That is, it doesn't involve a new physical birth but one by baptism and the Holy Spirit. Some interpret the "water" as amniotic fluid but this just doesn't work. Jesus is talking about how to be born again, not how one is born of flesh. Besides it's pointless to say that "unless one is born of water" (meaning amniotic fluid) "he cannot enter the kingdom of God." It goes without saying that if a person was never born they wouldn't even be around to ask how to be born again. It's just a ridiculous interpretation.

Just because Jesus distinguishes between flesh and Spirit that doesn't mean that baptism isn't included. Baptism is the mechanism through which the Spirit brings about the new birth.

You just added 'water baptism' to the words of Christ which HE never said in John 3:1-21

Not once did the LORD say 'water baptism' in John 3:1-21

This is adding to the Finished Work of Christ on the Cross - turn away from that error.

 

[DavidTree]

The most obvious meaning of this passage is that Jesus is talking about water baptism and the new birth by the Holy Spirit.

"Nicodemus said to Him, 'How can a man be born, being old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?' Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.' "—John 3:4-6

Nicodemus asks Him how a person can enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born. It's at this point that Jesus explains to him the new birth more correctly. That is, it doesn't involve a new physical birth but one by baptism and the Holy Spirit. Some interpret the "water" as amniotic fluid but this just doesn't work. Jesus is talking about how to be born again, not how one is born of flesh. Besides it's pointless to say that "unless one is born of water" (meaning amniotic fluid) "he cannot enter the kingdom of God." It goes without saying that if a person was never born they wouldn't even be around to ask how to be born again. It's just a ridiculous interpretation.

Just because Jesus distinguishes between flesh and Spirit that doesn't mean that baptism isn't included. Baptism is the mechanism through which the Spirit brings about the new birth.

You said "(water) Baptism is the mechanism through which the Spirit brings about the new birth."

This is a complete lie and comes from a religious heart of those who oppose the Spirit in favor of the flesh/religion/outward acts.

'fleshly water baptism' necessary for Holy Spirit Birth is CONTRARY to ALL Scripture and is CONTRARY to the GOSPEL of GOD.

JESUS says: "that which is flesh is flesh" - SEPARATION - "that which is Spirit is spirit."

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Christ does nothing without a purpose. Christ instituted two major ordinances/sacraments both for our Initial Justification and Continual Sanctification: Baptism and Communion. His Blood is present in both these sacraments, but in different ways. Christ uses visible symbols from His Creation to signify an internal cleansing/purification/strength that He gives us. He knows we need to wash in water in our natural lives, so He gives us the Baptismal Fount for the same reason, with a spiritual purpose. He knows that we need to eat to live in our natural life. So He gives us His Body and His Blood to be our spiritual food and drink, so that we may live on Him, the Bread of Life.



God Bless.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Baptismal Regeneration has a long history in the early Church. In fact, it was pretty much unanimous among the Church Fathers:

"The term is associated by some with John 3:1-21, where Jesus tells Nicodemus, a Pharisee and member of the Jewish ruling council, that "unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God ... unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God".[John 3:3-8]

One of the earliest of the Church Fathers to enunciate clearly and unambiguously the doctrine of baptismal regeneration ("the idea that salvation happens at and by water baptism duly administered") was Cyprian (c. 200 – 258): "While he attributed all the saving energy to the grace of God, he considered the 'laver of saving water' the instrument of God that makes a person 'born again,' receiving a new life and putting off what he had previously been. The 'water of new birth' animated him to new life by the Spirit of holiness working through it."[5] While according to Augustine, Pelagius (AD 390 – 418) denied that infant baptism forgives sins.[6]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptismal_regeneration

 

[DavidTree]

Christ does nothing without a purpose. Christ instituted two major ordinances/sacraments both for our Initial Justification and Continual Sanctification: Baptism and Communion. His Blood is present in both these sacraments, but in different ways. Christ uses visible symbols from His Creation to signify an internal cleansing/purification/strength that He gives us. He knows we need to wash in water in our natural lives, so He gives us the Baptismal Fount for the same reason, with a spiritual purpose. He knows that we need to eat to live in our natural life. So He gives us His Body and His Blood to be our spiritual food and drink, so that we may live on Him, the Bread of Life.



God Bless.

NO - to your catholic religion (i am former catholic)

fleshly water baptism is an outward act that can never bring forth the INWARD SALVATION of the Heart/Soul/Spirit

Turn to Christ with all your heart and forsake religion - adding to the Finished Work of Christ is sin.

 

[DavidTree]

Baptismal Regeneration has a long history in the early Church. In fact, it was pretty much unanimous among the Church Fathers:

"The term is associated by some with John 3:1-21, where Jesus tells Nicodemus, a Pharisee and member of the Jewish ruling council, that "unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God ... unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God".[John 3:3-8]

One of the earliest of the Church Fathers to enunciate clearly and unambiguously the doctrine of baptismal regeneration ("the idea that salvation happens at and by water baptism duly administered") was Cyprian (c. 200 – 258): "While he attributed all the saving energy to the grace of God, he considered the 'laver of saving water' the instrument of God that makes a person 'born again,' receiving a new life and putting off what he had previously been. The 'water of new birth' animated him to new life by the Spirit of holiness working through it."[5] While according to Augustine, Pelagius (AD 390 – 418) denied that infant baptism forgives sins.[6]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptismal_regeneration

NO - to your catholic religion (i am former catholic)

fleshly water baptism is an outward act that can never bring forth the INWARD SALVATION of the Heart/Soul/Spirit

Turn to Christ with all your heart and forsake religion - adding to the Finished Work of Christ is sin.

There is Only One TRUE Church of Christ and it is not in Rome. and SHE is not on earth.

Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not understand what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.b 23His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born through the promise.

24These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.
But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.

 

[ResidentAlien]

This is a complete lie and comes from a religious heart of those who oppose the Spirit in favor of the flesh/religion/outward acts.

Ahh, a religious heart. You're nothing if not consistent. That is your standard retort to anyone who disagrees with you, is it not?

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Religion and Faith are basically synonymous words. You are mistaken, David. I'll stand with Jesus Christ and the Word of God. God Bless.

John 6:

" 48I am that bread of life. 49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

 

[DavidTree]

Ahh, a religious heart. You're nothing if not consistent. That is your standard retort to anyone who disagrees with you, is it not?

My STANDARD is HIS WORD which you ALWAYS argue with...................your carnal mind versus the Holy Spirit/Word/Annointing

 

[DavidTree]

Religion and Faith are basically synonymous words. You are mistaken, David. I'll stand with Jesus Christ and the Word of God. God Bless.

John 6:

" 48I am that bread of life. 49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Religion is the OPPOSITE of FAITH

This is the TRUTH/THEME of GOD throughout the Scripture beginning in Genesis.

Your religion (catholicism same as judaism) crucified the LORD and they both continue to do so to this day.

Truth from a former prisoner of Roman catholicism and my wife from saved from Judaism.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Religion is the same as Faith. You are confused. Read the Epistle of St. James, where religion is spoken of as a Good Thing.

The Catholic Church converted Europe to the Christian Faith. You are misinformed. Here is more on Water Baptism:

"Zech 13:1 - The Prophesied Fountain to cleanse from sin and impurity[edit]
The Prophet Zechariah declares that God will open up a fountain to cleanse His people from all their sins and impurity: "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness." (Zech 13:1)."

From: https://www.conservapedia.com/Debate:_Does_Baptism_regenerate_or_is_it_symbolic?#Zech_13:1_-_The_Prophesied_Fountain_to_cleanse_from_sin_and_impurity