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J
At 1:26, the video tries to claim that there is a conflict between an all-loving God and an infinate punishment. When you do this, you are assuming there is some kind of Objective standard to fairness. The atheist must deal with this, before they can make any claims about something being unfair.
However, within Christianity, it's really quite simple. All that need be concluded, is that God is the Objective standard of fairness/love/justice/mercy/morality/etc etc.. or as carm put it below..
At 1:43... there is a mischaracterization of omnipotence and the Judeo-Christian God. The classic questions of, "Can God create a one-ended stick?" "Can God create a rock he can't lift?"...
Explanation..
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8imtDTVRrDg[/video]
However, this is similar to the above. Via, the Transcendental Argument for the Existance of God.
The Transcendental Argument for the Existence of God | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry <--- why laws of logic prove God exists
At 2:16 he continues with 1:43, asking, "can god kill himself?" When the question might as well be a nhonest one, and be phrased as.. "Can God defeat his omnipotence with His omnipotence?"
Around 2:45, he claims that he is omnipotent... yet he obfuscates the definition of omnipotence again. As he is not capable of doing all things logically possible. The theist is not argueing that to do something such as God killing himself, would be a conflict of nature, but rather, it is logically impossible given maximum power. Humans, don't have maximal logical power.
At 3:45 he presents what is known as the Argument Against God's existance from Free Will. This is only a problem with Libertarien Free will. Not Comptabilism or something such as Molinism.
Argument against God's existence from the impossibility of omniscience and free will: | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry <--- click
Around 6:58, he doesn't proceed on it but mentions the problem of evil.
Hour long lecture by WLC.
YouTube - ‪Problem of Pain (William Lane Craig)‬‏ <--- click
Another hour
YouTube - ‪The Problem of evil and suffering- Dr William Lane Craig‬‏ <--- click
Part one of yet again, another.
YouTube - ‪The Problem of Evil - Dr. William Lane Craig (Part 1)‬‏ <--- click
7:52 he says, "perfect beings don't make imperfect choices"
1) Human aren't perfect beings
2)This kind of goes back to the whole, "Why did god make adam and eve if he knew they'd sin"
Without understanding the full-end result, it would seem puzzling. However, this is simply solved again, by accepting that God is the Objective standard of perfection, if he choses, while we may not understand, it would be a perfect choice (amongst the choices available of choice). Additionally, this choice is tied directly to his immutable nature.
Around 9:00 he makes the classic, "so many options, all must be false!" claim, while also inserting the genetic fallacy of "you're religion X because you were born in a family that was religion X." It's also a bit misleading as to the situation of "choosing" that which is the most true religion.
From there, he basically just re-caps everything.
J
Well, he objected to God's view of homosexuality as recorded by the bible (not that you'll disagree with him) and I presented the Moral Argument, which requires that as an Atheist he have an Objective Morality to put up, or he must shut up. From there it went to what I perceive he thought was advantagous for him to argue.
J
Also, psymon, here is an artical you can read in relation to the video you had me view. I will be awating your response.
Why Would A Perfect God Make Imperfect Beings? <--- click
Why Would A Perfect God Make Imperfect Beings? <--- click
H
Wrong, dear.
I'm assuming you are calling homosexuality a sin, and by committing that sin that makes the person not a Christian?
So tell me then, are you sinless?
If you say you're not, by your statement, you're not a Christian.
If you say you are, then you must be Christ, which I'm going to have to call you out on.
I'm assuming you are calling homosexuality a sin, and by committing that sin that makes the person not a Christian?
So tell me then, are you sinless?
If you say you're not, by your statement, you're not a Christian.
If you say you are, then you must be Christ, which I'm going to have to call you out on.
R
The defense:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Romans 1
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Romans 1
R
Both you and I are subject to truth. You will argue your opinion I will argue mine. But we are both subject to Jesus Christ who teaches the truth. So again. I will leave this between you and Jesus. No one wants judgement, but the words of Jesus judge us all. So I will leave you to him.
May Jesus bless you.
May Jesus bless you.
Lyndies,
In attempting to understand anything in this world we always have to start from the veiw point of the Word of God, not debates over years, nor history or great scholars, philosophers, pastors etc, but the Word of God. All through out scripture the character of God is made known and how He feels about anything in life and pertaining to his creation, wether that be the earth, he charged man kind to take care of it in Genesis, so if we proceed in destroying the earth, we know and understand that according to the Word of God, His heart to us was that we take care of the earth, there-fore we know that if we negelect to take care of what God said to, in this case, the earth, then do you believe that God would smile down on our activities pertaining to the care of this earth? God created Adam and Eve, God created Eve for the purpose of helping Adam in the task that he was charged with, and through the Word of God it is writen how Husbands ought to love their wives as Christ loves the Church. Us husbands were charged by God to love our wives, but if husbands are not lovig their wives do you believe that God would smile down on that husbands actions of not loving his wife? God created Adam and Eve, he created them with bodies, and through them we all were born. The bodies that we were given from God are gifts the same, there-fore God charged us to care for our bodies, and if we choose not to take care of our bodies, do you believe that God will smile down on how we treat the bodies that He gave to us as gifts? I'm saying all of this to point out Gods attitude towards all of these such as the earth, marriage, the body etc, pointing out that God gave these things and have given certain criteria concerning them.
Lyndies in looking at the Word of God, God has created for all things His order of operation for them. I will ask you, in your looking at the Word of God what has Gods attitude been towards homosexuality? and how has Gods attitude been towards marriage pertaining to a man and a woman to eachother? Do you see or read anywhere in the Word of God where God smiled on the practices of homosexuality? or have you seen in the Word of God where God endorses marriage between a man and a woman? Have you seen anywhere in the Word of God where God destroyed cities, because of practices of marriage between a man and a woman? or have you seen God destroy a city because of the practices of homosexuality? Have you read anywhere in proverbs where God told a man to find another man and he shall obtain favor from the Lord? or have you read in the Word of God in proverbs that a man that finds a wife finds a good thing and will obtain favor from the Lord? Have you read anywhere in Romans where the Apostle Paul moved by the Holy Spirit spoke to the Romans telling them that God gave a man and woman who is married to eacother over to a reprobate mind? or did you read in Romans where the Apostle Paul was moved by the Holy Spirit to tell the Romans that God gave those who were participating in homosexuality over annd they became reprobates? According to the Word of God if it shows Gods constant blessing to the entity of man and a woman marrying each other and then Gods Word constantly showing disdain towards the practice of homosexuality, what is the conclusion of how God feels about homosexuality? and according to the Word of God, what is His attitude towards marriage between a man and a woman to eachother?
And in responce to you saying that your friends who are gay and said they are ok with their relationship with God and that he gave them peace about it. In Romans the Apostle Paul says that there were people who practiced homosexuality and because they chose to live that life style and rebel against Gods order of sexuality and they chose to ignore Gods conviction, the Apostle Paul said that God finaly because they chose to ignore Gods conviction that he took his conviction from them and just let them go. When we choose to constantly ignore the conviction of God, that means people will have peace only because the conviction of God is no longer wrestling in their conscience, because they have chosen to openly rebel against God and no longer listen to him, there Paul said they became reprobates. It sounds like your friends are actualy reprobates who are at peace only because the Holy Spirit has ceased to strive with them.
In attempting to understand anything in this world we always have to start from the veiw point of the Word of God, not debates over years, nor history or great scholars, philosophers, pastors etc, but the Word of God. All through out scripture the character of God is made known and how He feels about anything in life and pertaining to his creation, wether that be the earth, he charged man kind to take care of it in Genesis, so if we proceed in destroying the earth, we know and understand that according to the Word of God, His heart to us was that we take care of the earth, there-fore we know that if we negelect to take care of what God said to, in this case, the earth, then do you believe that God would smile down on our activities pertaining to the care of this earth? God created Adam and Eve, God created Eve for the purpose of helping Adam in the task that he was charged with, and through the Word of God it is writen how Husbands ought to love their wives as Christ loves the Church. Us husbands were charged by God to love our wives, but if husbands are not lovig their wives do you believe that God would smile down on that husbands actions of not loving his wife? God created Adam and Eve, he created them with bodies, and through them we all were born. The bodies that we were given from God are gifts the same, there-fore God charged us to care for our bodies, and if we choose not to take care of our bodies, do you believe that God will smile down on how we treat the bodies that He gave to us as gifts? I'm saying all of this to point out Gods attitude towards all of these such as the earth, marriage, the body etc, pointing out that God gave these things and have given certain criteria concerning them.
Lyndies in looking at the Word of God, God has created for all things His order of operation for them. I will ask you, in your looking at the Word of God what has Gods attitude been towards homosexuality? and how has Gods attitude been towards marriage pertaining to a man and a woman to eachother? Do you see or read anywhere in the Word of God where God smiled on the practices of homosexuality? or have you seen in the Word of God where God endorses marriage between a man and a woman? Have you seen anywhere in the Word of God where God destroyed cities, because of practices of marriage between a man and a woman? or have you seen God destroy a city because of the practices of homosexuality? Have you read anywhere in proverbs where God told a man to find another man and he shall obtain favor from the Lord? or have you read in the Word of God in proverbs that a man that finds a wife finds a good thing and will obtain favor from the Lord? Have you read anywhere in Romans where the Apostle Paul moved by the Holy Spirit spoke to the Romans telling them that God gave a man and woman who is married to eacother over to a reprobate mind? or did you read in Romans where the Apostle Paul was moved by the Holy Spirit to tell the Romans that God gave those who were participating in homosexuality over annd they became reprobates? According to the Word of God if it shows Gods constant blessing to the entity of man and a woman marrying each other and then Gods Word constantly showing disdain towards the practice of homosexuality, what is the conclusion of how God feels about homosexuality? and according to the Word of God, what is His attitude towards marriage between a man and a woman to eachother?
And in responce to you saying that your friends who are gay and said they are ok with their relationship with God and that he gave them peace about it. In Romans the Apostle Paul says that there were people who practiced homosexuality and because they chose to live that life style and rebel against Gods order of sexuality and they chose to ignore Gods conviction, the Apostle Paul said that God finaly because they chose to ignore Gods conviction that he took his conviction from them and just let them go. When we choose to constantly ignore the conviction of God, that means people will have peace only because the conviction of God is no longer wrestling in their conscience, because they have chosen to openly rebel against God and no longer listen to him, there Paul said they became reprobates. It sounds like your friends are actualy reprobates who are at peace only because the Holy Spirit has ceased to strive with them.
As righteous as all you stone throwers think you are,
It's my experience that Scripture doesn't force someone to hate. The hate is already there inside the person.
Scripture is just interpreted to justify the existing hatred in the person.
God sees your hearts and he knows your wicked desires. He sees you molding scripture to justify hating your neighbour.
It's my experience that Scripture doesn't force someone to hate. The hate is already there inside the person.
Scripture is just interpreted to justify the existing hatred in the person.
God sees your hearts and he knows your wicked desires. He sees you molding scripture to justify hating your neighbour.