LET THE WOMAN LEARN IN SILENCE - WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MEANS?

[Dino246]

I've read enough of his posts that I do understand most of the "connections". However, it's like investigating why the toaster doesn't work and finding that the house was wired incorrectly.

 

[lenna]

FYI the law did not come until Moses.
The curse of the law is a different curse.

We are talking about how the fall of man and sin caused God to pronounce over us Men and Women the exact opposite of a blessing.
AKA a curse.

right

and the NT comes AFTER ALL OF IT

Jesus became a curse for us

I don't think you understand what a curse is

 

[Scribe]

A mutual submission brings the peace of God that is beyond human understanding as the unstanding of God or understanding of faith. A picture of the father and Son our husband . One God. Male and female. One wife

Again it would seem to represent the virtuous or true intimacy, The wife of Christ .She is made of of both female and male, Jew and gentile

She two working as one created lost virtue. This is when Adan refused to protect her but rather joined in. The two . . again to represent one wife divorced Israel. Which as son of Go the church literally will be one in the new heavens and earth. . .

Serving Christ. Its never the ministry of one.

Great parable in Luke 10. Both are necessary to create the virtuous ( intimate) . Mary chose the virtuous one. washing the feet. . hearing the word of the gospel. Feet a metaphor that represents those who bring the gospel.

Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house. And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word. But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.Luke 10:38-42

I don't see the connection to my post.

I could be wrong but I don't think Israel was ever divorced. I am thinking of this verse from Isaiah.

Thus says the LORD: “Where is your mother’s certificate of divorce, with which I sent her away? Or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities you were sold, and for your transgressions your mother was sent away.
As you read this passage with the help of commentaries they all agree that the idea is that He had not divorced Israel and is about to have King Cyrus decree their release from Babylon so that they can go rebuild the temple and Jerusalem.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Not me.
You are missing the fact it was a question.

I see what you're saying. But lenna did not mix it up. She did state we still die, etc. Which is consequence of sin (the law of reaping and sowing). God lets us experience the consequence for the sake of learning from our mistakes and so God is not mocked. But if Christ became curse for us, and curse isn't removed off us, what would even be the point of Christ becoming a curse? Parallel statement is that sin is removed off those who believe, because Christ became sin for us.

 

[garee]

In Genesis 3:16, God is addressing literal childbirth and literal pain.

Yes just as in all parables hiding the mysteries made known by the unseen faith Christ working in us. Faith as it is written must be mixed or lose out on the good new gospel. and forfeits the rest that makes our tribulations lighter.

(Purple) My added opinion


And I will put enmity ( opposing spirit between thee and the spirit of lies)and the woman (the church) , and between thy seed (flesh) and her seed; (Christ our husband the spiritual seed. Tt the incorruptible seed by which men are born again, the word of God ) it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his (our husband Christ) heel. Genesis 3:15

 

[garee]

I don't see the connection to my post.

I could be wrong but I don't think Israel was ever divorced. I am thinking of this verse from Isaiah.

Thus says the LORD: “Where is your mother’s certificate of divorce, with which I sent her away? Or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities you were sold, and for your transgressions your mother was sent away.
As you read this passage with the help of commentaries they all agree that the idea is that He had not divorced Israel and is about to have King Cyrus decree their release from Babylon so that they can go rebuild the temple and Jerusalem.

Hi thanks for the reply


Not all Israel are reckoned as born again Christian the new name God named the bride. The other Israel is reckoned as the strange woman unconverted mankind .She is not reckoned as the mother us us all .But the mother of natural man the flesh daughters of men. But sons of God to represent mankind .No gender. No procreating . . the free woman .

 

[Butterflyyy]

I see what you're saying. But lenna did not mix it up. She did state we still die, etc. Which is consequence of sin (the law of reaping and sowing). God lets us experience the consequence for the sake of learning from our mistakes and so God is not mocked. But if Christ became curse for us, and curse isn't removed off us, what would even be the point of Christ becoming a curse? Parallel statement is that sin is removed off those who believe, because Christ became sin for us.

When it says that Christ became a curse for us I don’t believe this to mean that all other curses are therefore broken, it also says “Cursed is everyone that hangs from a tree.” Christ was accursed for us making the way of salvation for us. Christ became sin for us but we still have to repent of sin regularly as believers and take up our cross daily and die to self, lots of verses illustrate this.

I know the Lord, and I have experienced curses being broken as a believer; this does not negate the fact that Christ became a curse for us, thus achieving salvation for all who believe.

 

[Butterflyyy]

So women no long have pain in childbirth?

I can assure you they do and it is definitely a curse.

 

[SoulWeaver]

When it says that Christ became a curse for us I don’t believe this to mean that all other curses are therefore broken, it also says “Cursed is everyone that hangs from a tree.” Christ was accursed for us making the way of salvation for us. Christ became sin for us but we still have to repent of sin regularly as believers and take up our cross daily and die to self, lots of verses illustrate this.

I know the Lord, and I have experienced curses being broken as a believer; this does not negate the fact that Christ became a curse for us, thus achieving salvation for all who believe.

Agreed.
Rather are able to break various curses through His power, in His name. According to our faith. Sometimes people lack faith, like when Jesus scolded apostles for being unable to cast some demons out.
This is reserved for us believers, yes.
My point was on insisting how we are all are cursed. My point being, that if Jesus became a curse for us, that at least SOME curse must have been lifted from those who believe... what people are referring that did not get lifted is actually the law of reaping and sowing. But the law was fulfilled, not broken.

 

[lenna]

Lets not get off topic anymore.
If we want to discuss what is and is not a curse or a blessing we can start a post in BDF

oh that's ok. I can't remember or think of one thread here that never went 'off topic'

I would like to state for the record and for your interest, that God told Eve He would INCREASE her pain in childbirth which certainly seems to indicate there was already pain involved. huh

Another interesting note on that entire episode, is the fact God said Eve would be the mother of all living and He pronounced a curse on the serpent in which the serpent would be DEFEATED by a child born of a woman.


Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree’) that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:13-14

21God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God. II Corinthians 5:21

so in effect, we are not cursed as Christ became a curse for us and we no longer have our sins counted against us because Christ bore them for us. what curse does the law carry? death. we still experience physical death but we are spiritually now alive.

we were cursed and cut off from God; we are now blessed as was Abraham in all things (Gal 3)

only God can remove a curse, which has lasting effects and will follow a person throughout their life if not removed

I used to think we were still cursed as per the curses incurred with the sin of Adam and Eve, but we are not. We suffer the consequences of that sin and in fact the entire world does. BUT we are not cursed. We are now blessed.

 

[lenna]

look at Galatians. we cannot be both cursed and blessed. hello?

 

[SoulWeaver]

look at Galatians. we cannot be both cursed and blessed. hello?

This is the confusion that keeps repeating when people argue we are cursed.

Being subjected to the laws such as law of reaping and sowing (the whole universe operates under God's laws), does not mean being under the curse of the law, which was broken.

What is the curse of the law? That every soul that sins shall die because no one can fulfill the law. But through Jesus this was nailed on the cross. We take up our cross and follow Him. So we are dead to the law and we can live through Christ.

So while curse is still out there in the world, believers cannot be cursed. Our old man is dead, and the new man is born of the Spirit and what is born of God is certainly not cursed.

 

[SoulWeaver]

The Church used to operate diffidently.
More of a public forum then a orator's platform.
So it was common for everyone to be speaking and asking questions, saying what you believe in order to learn and be corrected.

Women for the sake of not exercising authority over men and how that speaks to the church which the woman embodies and Christ which the man represents.
Women where instructed to learn in silence and to ask their questions at home of their husbands/fathers
Now the whole Church is in the position of the woman, learning in silence.

It has been that way since the corruption of Rome and its adoption of Christianity and its inclusion of how their worship and teaching of the roman gods was done.
The Hebrew traditions where abandoned, so this no longer makes sense to modern Christians without a history lesson on how it used to be in the new testament Church.
Something I would love to see rebuilt and in practice today.

You are VERY right about this. That the pulpit IS the problem. We are to in honor prefer one another.
The Spirit appoints people Himself for His offices. People always try to meddle in His business and seek their own glory.
Watch people come to wise counsel to such and such person. That's how you know that God appointed them to counsel. They feed the sheep, and sheep come to them.
Watch people ask a certain person questions when they want to learn and their knowledge increases. That's how you know that God appointed them to teach. They feed the sheep, and sheep come to them.
Watch how people flock to this person for spiritual guidance and are edified. That's how you know God appointed them as pastor. They feed the sheep, the sheep come to them.
Then the problem is down to discerning wolves.
I don't believe the church should have institutionalized these things at all. That was the biggest mistake.
Institutionalizing the church and installing pulpit also made the wolves untouchable through claiming authority.

 

[SoulWeaver]

It's your (False Claim) I'm attacking any person, God's words are true, I suggest you stop falsely accusing me.

We will disagree, there are no female pastors in the Church ordained by Jesus Christ.

A Pastor/Bishop/Deacon is to be a man and the (Husband) of one wife, women are excluded from these offices.

1 Timothy 3:1-13 King James Version (KJV)
3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Fine. Stop bringing up women pastors as a problem in the same breath and category with LGBT pastors, and I will never say anything about you insinuating again. As I said, these two are separate issues.

The chapter you cited to support your view does not hold water, because Phoebe is mentioned as an exemplary deacon.
So if "deacons' wives" and "deacons being husbands of one wife" being mentioned did not prevent Phoebe from Romans 16:1 from being a distinguished deacon enough to be sent to Rome as an emissary, what gives?
Strong's Greek 1249, the same word used in Timothy, that you cite.

 

[lenna]

This is the confusion that keeps repeating when people argue we are cursed.

Being subjected to the laws such as law of reaping and sowing (the whole universe operates under God's laws), does not mean being under the curse of the law, which was broken.

What is the curse of the law? That every soul that sins shall die because no one can fulfill the law. But through Jesus this was nailed on the cross. We take up our cross and follow Him. So we are dead to the law and we can live through Christ.

So while curse is still out there in the world, believers cannot be cursed. Our old man is dead, and the new man is born of the Spirit and what is born of God is certainly not cursed.

I found out through looking deeper into the usage of the word cursed when referring to 'all those who are 'hung on a tree' that Paul also understood that those under that form of execution were thought of as cursed, apart from spiritual understanding' as Deuteronomy pronounces a curse on those so killed. (21:22-23)

22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:

23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Therefore, as Paul knew Jesus to 'have no sin', he underscores a different meaning other than being 'accursed' because of gross sin that initiated a Crucifixion. The Jews might have meant it that way for Jesus, but as Jesus had no sin, he became a curse as Paul states which is a big difference. Jesus was not cursed by God as the Jews would have understood it, but became a curse, in effect 'beyond God' as are all of us before accepting Christ.

So that just made me see things a little differently when I understood the meaning those physically present would have attributed to what they were viewing. Cut off from God.

And we know what Jesus cried out during the Crucifixion. (asking why His Father had abandoned Him)

So Paul writes that Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law. Gods laws were broken when Adam & Eve sinned, they disobeyed, so to say the law was not in effect (chronologically for the Bible they were not) is to ignore the fact that God states that Jesus will defeat the serpent which meant that the sin for breaking the law was the curse of death.

It's a little complicated but like anything, making the effort to understand what Paul is saying is well worth it

 

[Butterflyyy]

oh that's ok. I can't remember or think of one thread here that never went 'off topic'

I would like to state for the record and for your interest, that God told Eve He would INCREASE her pain in childbirth which certainly seems to indicate there was already pain involved. huh

Another interesting note on that entire episode, is the fact God said Eve would be the mother of all living and He pronounced a curse on the serpent in which the serpent would be DEFEATED by a child born of a woman.


Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree’) that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:13-14

21God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God. II Corinthians 5:21

so in effect, we are not cursed as Christ became a curse for us and we no longer have our sins counted against us because Christ bore them for us. what curse does the law carry? death. we still experience physical death but we are spiritually now alive.

we were cursed and cut off from God; we are now blessed as was Abraham in all things (Gal 3)

only God can remove a curse, which has lasting effects and will follow a person throughout their life if not removed

I used to think we were still cursed as per the curses incurred with the sin of Adam and Eve, but we are not. We suffer the consequences of that sin and in fact the entire world does. BUT we are not cursed. We are now blessed.

You need to shake your attitude sorry but you do.

 

[Butterflyyy]

Agreed.
Rather are able to break various curses through His power, in His name. According to our faith. Sometimes people lack faith, like when Jesus scolded apostles for being unable to cast some demons out.
This is reserved for us believers, yes.
My point was on insisting how we are all are cursed. My point being, that if Jesus became a curse for us, that at least SOME curse must have been lifted from those who believe... what people are referring that did not get lifted is actually the law of reaping and sowing. But the law was fulfilled, not broken.

Amen the curse of sin and death was broken

 

[lenna]

You need to shake your attitude sorry but you do.

I don't even know you.

You are offended . I can't help that.

For a butterfly, you do seem to bite

Anyway, is this your way of stating you cannot respond to my post or do you have something to contribute?

 

[Butterflyyy]

look at Galatians. we cannot be both cursed and blessed. hello?

Lenna, may I ask a question: How many times have you given birth?

 

[Blain]

God's words and instruction are very clear.

A Pastor/Bishop/Deacon is to be a man and the (Husband) of one wife, women are excluded from these offices.

1 Timothy 3:1-13 King James Version (KJV)
3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

I am not talking about the offices I am talking about speaking and teaching, you don't have to be in a position in the church to do these things.

Or what about if a women is in fact the pastor of the church but God used her to help guide teach and even save souls which I happen to know one here in cc, if a women is not to be in that position but she did all these things then by whose power was it done if only man is to be in that position?