In John 6 many saw him, but only a few believed, even judas was called but never came to saving faith, in my example all saw him, but only a few believed, it is they who were saved, because instead of wallowing in unbelief, they listened to God and god saved them.
This statement does not explain the WHY one is saved. Specifically, you haven't shown here that faith is via FREE WILL or God's selecting whom would be saved.
John 6:44 No man comes unto me, except the Father which has sent me draw (1) to draw, drag off 2) metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel] him., he infers it to be an incontrovertible fact, that the hearts of believers are so effectually governed from above, that they follow with undeviating affection.
The Lord draws men by their own wills; wills, however, which he himself has produced - viz. that the grace offered by the Lord is not merely one which every individual has full liberty of choosing to receive or reject, but a grace which produces in the heart both choice and will: so that all the good works which follow after are its fruit and effect; the only will which yields obedience being the will which grace itself has made.
Arminians would say the Spirit's work of conviction is the same both in the converted and in unconverted, that which distinguishes the one class from the other is that the former
yielded to His strivings whereas the latter
resist them. But if this were the case then the Christian would have ground for boasting and self-glorying over
his cooperation with the Spirit; but this would flatly contradict Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that
not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."
this regeneration before justification but is unnerving, it has those who are still dead in sin (not yet justified) and dead because of that sin, made alive while still in that sin, THEN forgiven of that sin after they are made alove
The order of salvation is a logical order, not a chronological order. Perhaps that is the issue. I don't see this order being a deciding issue for either of us unless one can find scripture to backup the order. I believe I can do so as follows:
1 John 5:1 "
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born [regenerated]
of God" ...The verb tense make's John's intention unmistakable: Everyone who goes on believing [present, continuous action] that Jesus is the Christ
has been born of God [perfect, completed action with abiding effects]. " Faith is the evidence of new birth, not the cause of it." “has been born” is a passive verb; they are caused to be born by another, that being God. Some Arminian exegetes might object to this interpretation. A means of testing the consistency of the exegesis offered of this passage would be to ask how such a person interprets these words: 1 John 2:29 If you know that he is righteous, you also know that everyone who practices righteousness has been fathered by him. Every consistent Protestant would say, “the reason one practices righteousness is because they have already been born of Him.
as the old saying goes. Many are called, few are chosen,
Shouldn't the verse read: Many are called, few
are chosen chose (sorry, couldn't resist... minor cheap shot)
as for your 4 examples, I do not have time this morning i will try to get to them later
No need ... the examples were to ensure we have a common understanding of the FAITH aspect of salvation. I believe God changes our heart so we believe and you believe you are given a choice and that it is up to you to believe.
Aside1: I think you are a nice Christian guy with whom I disagree
Aside2: Despite your comment saying I do not answer your questions, I think I have done so for the most part.
Aside3: Our debate, in my opinion, has been civil .. thank you
Question:
Definition of work: activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.
Given: You believe that you of your own free will must believe (mental effort) to be saved (to achieve a result)
Question: How do you explain that you do NO WORK in order to be saved??????
