Not By Works

[cv5]

WOW. I've given Satan credit for being highly intelligent. I assume Satan knows the Bible and understands that he has sinned. He's not an idiot.

I disagree. I think Satan and his minions believe that God is the bad guy. There are some interesting allusions to this concept in the parables of Jesus.

 

[cv5]

Does a NON-Believer have this justification?
Or someone who believes?

No unbeliever has this justification. I have no idea why you would ask such a thing.

 

[EleventhHour]

I disagree. I think Satan and his minions believe that God is the bad guy. There are some interesting allusions to this concept in the parables of Jesus.

Being so full of pride I do see where he would not view himself as sinful...but then it is really speculation.

A prideful being would beleive his actions are justifiable.

 

[biker]

No unbeliever has this justification. I have no idea why you would ask such a thing.

I am just showing it takes an act, which is a works, to Believe and once we Believe, God rewards us with all that you have mentioned.

 

[biker]

I Believe in God more than I ever have and I rely upon Him more than I ever have. Those are works to which God in return Blesses me more than I could ever desire and ask for!

And they are continual works every moment, hour, day, week, month, year!

 

[stonesoffire]

"This is our work" huh?

That's funny, it's apparent Jesus said it's (belief) the work of God.

Then Peter said faith is obtained, 2 Peter 1:1. That literally means given by divine allotment.

And Paul said it comes from the word (not us) and from the power that raised Christ, Romans 10:17, Ephesians 1:19 respectively.

But you're saying it came from you, and is the work of man. So it IS of works according to you (and others) after all!

Hmmm. Wonder who's right?

No, I’m not saying that preacher. I know faith is a gift from God. Faith is a substance in the spiritual realm that when Father sees it manifest in our life, through Honly Spirit, the gift of Himself.....He gives us that which we are asking for.

I think you might just be in a nitpicking mood.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just was using what Christ Himself said:



Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Yep

he brings us to faith

thus, if our faith fails, he failed

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"This is our work" huh?

That's funny, it's apparent Jesus said it's (belief) the work of God.

Then Peter said faith is obtained, 2 Peter 1:1. That literally means given by divine allotment.

And Paul said it comes from the word (not us) and from the power that raised Christ, Romans 10:17, Ephesians 1:19 respectively.

But you're saying it came from you, and is the work of man. So it IS of works according to you (and others) after all!

Hmmm. Wonder who's right?

No one claims it comes from us, don’t you get tired of falsely accusing people?

 

[stonesoffire]

Nope

god did not leave it up to us

what he did is not force it on us, because he is a god of love

but you can not comprehend that, because you think your special. Thus god chose you over others

Why would he think this EG?

 

[stonesoffire]

Got to go....later. Has been interesting.

 

[cv5]

The representation that you have given of the King James Translators and the AV1611 (KJB) is an incorrect one, and misapplies their words, and is a terrible aprioric revision of actual history:

"... For when your Highneffe had once out of deepe iudg-ment apprehended, how conuenient it was, That out of the Originall fa-cred tongues, together with comparing of the labours, both in our owne and other forreigne Languages, of many worthy men who went before vs, there fhould be one more exact Transflation of the holy Scriptures into the English tongue ..." [PDF page 6] - https://ia601500.us.archive.org/24/items/1611-the-authorized-king-james-bible/1611 The Authorized King James Bible.pdf​

It (AV1611) is indeed a most magnificent and glorious Translation of the preserved words of God (Psalms 12:6-7).

There is even a section called "THE TRANSLATORS TO THE READER" [PDF page 8].

"... The Scriptures then being acknowledged to bee fo full and fo perfect ..." [PDF page 10]​

"... If trueth be to be tried by thefe tongues [Hebrewe Volumes and originall Greeke], then whence fhould a Tranflation be made, but out of them? Thefe tongues therefore, the Scriptures wee fay in thofe tongues, wee fet before vs to transflate, being the tongues wherein God was pleafed to fpeak to his Church by his Prophets anf Apoftles. Neither did we run ouer the worke with the pofting hafte that the Septuagint did, if that be true [it isn't, as there is no "the Septuagint [LXX]", it's a myth] which is repor-ted of them, that they finifhed it in 72. dayes; neither were we barred or hindered from going ouer it againe, hauing once done it, like S. Hierome, if that be true which himfelf reporteth, that he could no fooner write any thing, but prefently it was caught from him, and publifhed, and he could not haue leaue to mend it: neither, to be fhort, were we the firft that fell in hand with transflating the Scripture into Englifh, and confequently deftitute of former helpes, as it is written of Origine ..." [PDF page 17]​

​

As God's perfect word was translated, it is indeed, without error in its preserved words.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this but the Masoretic text was intentionally corrupted by Rabbi Akiba at about 100AD. The best Old Testament text we have is the Alexandrian LXX, and even this has a few problems, notably Ex 12:40 ("and in the land of Canaan"), which can be resolved when you understand that there were probably many copies of the Alexandrian LXX around, and the one that was eventually found (quite late mind you) probably had this error, whereas others and earlier ones did not, such the copies that Paul probably quoted from.

Just to let you know the Alexandrian LXX correctly adds about 1700 years to the Genesis patriarchs genealogies, whereas the faulty Masoretic text is 1700 years short, for reasons that are well known.

 

[cv5]

Yep

he brings us to faith

thus, if our faith fails, he failed

Basically that's what I believe, though adequately expressing it in the correct terminology can become quite difficult.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why would he think this EG?

necause He was chosen while others were not and will never have even a chance to be rescued.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You cannot have Grace until you first Believe. And to Believe is an act, which is a works!

No

god offers all men,

only the people who humble themselves and become poor in spirit (spiritually bankrupt) will recieve it

the tax collector was justified because he called out in faith

the pharisee is rejected because he did not believe

 

[Micaiah-imla]

I ask you again....are you born again?

Yes I am.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When you give someone a red x with no explanation or Even an attempt to show where they are wrong, you lose all form of credibility.
if you disagree with me, show me where I got it wrong, otherwise ignore me. Because I have no respect for you

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

No.

I am suffering according to this:

All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution (2 Timothy 3:12).

 

[biker]

No

god offers all men,

only the people who humble themselves and become poor in spirit (spiritually bankrupt) will recieve it

the tax collector was justified because he called out in faith

the pharisee is rejected because he did not believe

No, Christ even said we are all given a measure of faith. This is in general to all humans. But we still must use this measure properly. By Believing in Christ, we have used it towards Salvation, which it was intended for. It's still a choice how we use it!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

See this is what they want us to think

there are 100 people in rough sees, all of them are drowning, non of them will survive unless they are saved, and non of them deserve to be rescued or can earn it

god comes and although god has the power to save all 100. He choses instead to save part of them and just lets the others drown.
and they want us to think we merit salvation, yet refuse to acknowledge they are special people because god chose them over others.

its sickening to be honest

 

[EleventhHour]

When God went to the Cross, He had Mercy for the Jews and Grace for the Gentiles.

This is something new?