Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

[Mattathias]

“But I [Paul] want you to understand that the head of every man is the Christ [Jesus of Nazareth], and the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of the Christ [Jesus of Nazareth] is God [the one, only and unique God...the God whom Christians worship...the God of the fathers... the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob... the God of Israel... the God of Jesus Christ...the Father].”

1 Corinthians 11:3, amplification in brackets is mine

”He [Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ] is the head of the body, the church; he [Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ] the firstborn from the dead, so that he [Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ] might come to have first place in everything.”

Colossians 1:18, amplification in brackets is mine

The head of the church - Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ - is, himself, a unitarian.

The head of the body is unitarian. The body is unitarian and/or trinitarian?

 

[Mattathias]

“But I [Paul] want you to understand that the head of every man is the Christ [Jesus of Nazareth], and the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of the Christ [Jesus of Nazareth] is God [the one, only and unique God...the God whom Christians worship...the God of the fathers... the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob... the God of Israel... the God of Jesus Christ...the Father].”

1 Corinthians 11:3, amplification in brackets is mine

”He [Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ] is the head of the body, the church; he [Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ] the firstborn from the dead, so that he [Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ] might come to have first place in everything.”

Colossians 1:18, amplification in brackets is mine

The head of the church - Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ - is, himself, a unitarian.

The head of the body is unitarian. The body is unitarian and/or trinitarian?

That the head of the unitarian church is a unitarian isn’t at all surprising.

That the head of the trinitarian church is a unitarian is fascinating.

 

[Absolutely]

Jesus’ words never contradict who and how many his God is.

Jesus said it
I just accept what He said.
I do not need it reframed

 

[Absolutely]

And what makes this post ^ about Mark 12 and Jesus confirming God is ONE Person more Valuable:

This verse here:
John 14:
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

So in reality, this was the Father talking to the Scribe, not Christ!

So the Father is confirming God is ONE PERSON!

Looks like you are saying Jesus is not God.

 

[Absolutely]

You would think the Mark passage would be a game set match on the subject. It's IMO the best scripture that Jesus did not support the Trinity doctrine. I have only seen one person try and explain it and all they could do was give a long filibuster dodge which never addressed the problem anyway.

Apparently you do not believe Jesus is God.

 

[Absolutely]

And what makes this post ^ about Mark 12 and Jesus confirming God is ONE Person more Valuable:

This verse here:
John 14:
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

So in reality, this was the Father talking to the Scribe, not Christ!

So the Father is confirming God is ONE PERSON!

It is perplexing to anyone that unpacks it mentally.
The bible is a Spirit book.
Understanding is not before believing.
Believing is first,whether or not I understand it.

You are inverting truth in favor of a premise.
Your starting place is mental,or placing God in man's dimension.

 

[Mattathias]

Jesus said it
I just accept what He said.
I do not need it reframed

Same with me. My very simple point was that what Jesus said is not opposed to, and is entirely consistent with, what the authors of scripture - OT and NT - said.

 

[Absolutely]

We are not allowed to make statements that would suggest Jesus is not the Most High. It's against the rules and gets you banned. Is this an honest mistake or you trying to set me up to be banned.
Being called a heretic doesn't mean anything to me, the nazerens were called heretics and that was the sect of Jesus.

Interesting dilemma.

But I have seen other heresies tolerated.

But your denial of JESUS'S person and testimony is beyond a board membership dilemma.

 

[Absolutely]

Same with me. My very simple point was that what Jesus said is not opposed to, and is entirely consistent with, what the authors of scripture - OT and NT - said.

Amen

 

[Absolutely]

Clarify your remarks. Are you claiming that Jesus isn't Yahweh?

I think what you are saying is that Jesus is some lesser "god".

It is true that "elohim" can refer to different beings, including angels.

However, to claim that Jesus isn't Yahweh is a heresy.

The Father is Yahweh.
The Son is Yahweh.
The Holy Spirit is Yahweh.
Yahweh is one being or essence.
These three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are coessential and coeternal. They share the same essence and have existed together since eternity.

As far as I can tell that is exactly what some are doing.

 

[biker]

It is perplexing to anyone that unpacks it mentally.
The bible is a Spirit book.
Understanding is not before believing.
Believing is first,whether or not I understand it.

You are inverting truth in favor of a premise.
Your starting place is mental,or placing God in man's dimension.

FALSE!

I read the Bible and witness the Holy Spirit giving me insight.

The only way you can give the Reasoning like you have is that is most likely how you have broken down God's Word!

 

[biker]

Looks like you are saying Jesus is not God.

Looks like I am saying what Jesus said in John 14:10!

Maybe read John 14:10 until it sinks in!

 

[jaybird88]

Apparently you do not believe Jesus is God.

i am not the bible so it makes little difference what i believe.

Interesting dilemma.

But I have seen other heresies tolerated.

But your denial of JESUS'S person and testimony is beyond a board membership dilemma.

i have seen people banned for this like nothing, dont pass go, no explanation, no warning, and you are banned FOREVER! i have been here over five years.

i never said Jesus was not the Most High and i do not reject Jesus is the Most High. however the Most High does in fact command those not to bring false testimony against others. matter of fact is is more than just a sin, it is listed among the seven detestable sins. of all the sins out there the Lord says these are the worst, i would not want to be the one going around committing those sins.

where does Jesus teach one must believe He is the Most High to follow Him? i would like to see it.

 

[Peterlag]

Here are five points that define the Trinity. Can you list Scriptures which prove each point?

1. There is one God, and his name is YHVH.
2. This one God reveals Himself in Three distinct Persons; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
3. The Father is God.
4. The Son is God.
5. The Holy Spirit is God.
6. These three Persons are co-eternal and co-essential, meaning that each Person has always existed, and they all share the same
essence.

A great book I read years ago is called "When Jesus Became God" by Richard E. Rubenstein. An historical look at how the Catholics were the first to make Jesus God a good 3 hunfred years after all the Apostles were dead.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

A great book I read years ago is called "When Jesus Became God" by Richard E. Rubenstein. An historical look at how the Catholics were the first to make Jesus God a good 3 hunfred years after all the Apostles were dead.

The deity of Christ is a thoroughly Scriptural position. I recommend Forgotten Trinity by James White in this regard, as well as two different books by Stuart Olyott.

What the Bible teaches about the Trinity
What the Bible Teaches About the Person of Christ


Or..you could listen to the cults and their false doctrine like I did for a decade.

By the way, the idea that Roman Catholicism existed in the first three centuries is laughable, and cults are extremely ignorant to make this claim. Rome was a mere bishopric of the apostolic church, and the bishop of Rome at the time of the council of Nicea didn't even attend due to his age. Listening to cults makes a person soft-headed.

I'm so glad God delivered me from those retards.

 

[jaybird88]

A great book I read years ago is called "When Jesus Became God" by Richard E. Rubenstein. An historical look at how the Catholics were the first to make Jesus God a good 3 hunfred years after all the Apostles were dead.

not sure i would call those guys Catholic, more like imperial rome, after all it was the emperor and the roman aristocracy that made the decisions. so after rome came along and took over the faith, what other changes did they make? were the changes good? are the romans people we can trust to make changes to the faith? did rome have a history of good fruit or bad fruit? lets look at the roman example:

they liked to crucify people.
they liked to burn people alive.
they conquered free independent states put them under roman laws, roman tax and roman governors.
they killed Jesus.
killed the 11 of the 12 and one was given life in prison.
killed st Paul.
they believed only the poor and working class should pay tax while the rich payed nothing. Julius Ceaser tried to change that, they killed him.
i guess i could keep going but whats the point, after all that im not sure i would trust imperial rome to walk my mother across the street.

i am so glad the Lord gave me common sense to read history books to teach me the reality of things.

 

[AndyMaleh]

Anything that is true doesn't need defending.

 

[jaybird88]

Anything that is true doesn't need defending.

in the old days they had to burn people alive to make it "true".

 

[Peterlag]

not sure i would call those guys Catholic, more like imperial rome, after all it was the emperor and the roman aristocracy that made the decisions. so after rome came along and took over the faith, what other changes did they make? were the changes good? are the romans people we can trust to make changes to the faith? did rome have a history of good fruit or bad fruit? lets look at the roman example:

they liked to crucify people.
they liked to burn people alive.
they conquered free independent states put them under roman laws, roman tax and roman governors.
they killed Jesus.
killed the 11 of the 12 and one was given life in prison.
killed st Paul.
they believed only the poor and working class should pay tax while the rich payed nothing. Julius Ceaser tried to change that, they killed him.
i guess i could keep going but whats the point, after all that im not sure i would trust imperial rome to walk my mother across the street.

i am so glad the Lord gave me common sense to read history books to teach me the reality of things.

You left out one. They also made Jesus God.

 

[Laish]

A great book I read years ago is called "When Jesus Became God" by Richard E. Rubenstein. An historical look at how the Catholics were the first to make Jesus God a good 3 hunfred years after all the Apostles were dead

Is that the same Richard E. Rubenstein that writes for Al Jazeera?
I guess he missed a few notes in history concerning the early church and the divinity of Christ .

Polycarp (AD 69-155)
Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal high priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth...and to us with you, and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead.

Ignatius (AD 50-117)

Ignatius, who is also Theophorus, unto her which hath been blessed in greatness through the plentitude of God the Father; which hath been foreordained before the ages to be for ever unto abiding and unchangeable glory, united and elect in a true passion, by the will of the Father and of Jesus Christ our God; even unto the church which is in Ephesus..........
Being as you are imitators of God, once you took on new life through the blood of God you completed perfectly the task so natural to you

Melito of Sardis (died c. AD 180)
He that hung up the earth in space was Himself hanged up; He that fixed the heavens was fixed with nails; He that bore up the earth was born up on a tree; the Lord of all was subjected to ignominy in a naked body—God put to death!...n order that He might not be seen, the luminaries turned away, and the day became darkened—because they slew God, who hung naked on the tree.
All these guys were well before the 300s before the Catholic Church. There are more .
Do some research .
One other question do you believe in the divinity of Christ Jesus?
Blessings
Bill