Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

[jaybird88]

You left out one. They also made Jesus God.

thats what they did to roman emperors right?

btw is someone asks you if you believe in the divinity of Jesus and you say you do not, you get banned. just so you know.

on a side note, i never understood how "divinity of Jesus" meant Jesus is the Most High, an angel is divine yet no one thinks angels are the Most High. misleading term IMO.

 

[bojack]

When Adam sinned and broke God's command, he died .. God did not quit loving him .. Why didn't God just restore him right then ?

There had to be a shed blood sacrifice, I don't know why .. The blood of animals could not cover .. Only Jesus blood could, He was sinless, He was God in the flesh who could bleed and offer up His innocent blood for us , right ? The Word of God become flesh ..

 

[Peterlag]

thats what they did to roman emperors right?

btw is someone asks you if you believe in the divinity of Jesus and you say you do not, you get banned. just so you know.

on a side note, i never understood how "divinity of Jesus" meant Jesus is the Most High, an angel is divine yet no one thinks angels are the Most High. misleading term IMO.

Someone asked me the first day if I believe Jesus was God. I did not answer. That was a couple of weeks ago. I could leave any day now because I'm just about done with this site. But thanks for your love.

 

[AndyMaleh]

Someone asked me the first day if I believe Jesus was God. I did not answer. That was a couple of weeks ago. I could leave any day now because I'm just about done with this site. But thanks for your love.

So, where would you go next if that were to happen? Any other websites you recommend?

 

[bojack]

When Adam sinned and broke God's command, he died .. God did not quit loving him .. Why didn't God just restore him right then ?

There had to be a shed blood sacrifice, I don't know why .. The blood of animals could not cover .. Only Jesus blood could, He was sinless, He was God in the flesh who could bleed and offer up His innocent blood for us , right ? The Word of God become flesh ..

Why couldn't Abraham save us, he made the covenant of circumcision with God, he made circumcision a law for all with him and all born from then on in his camp .. Or Moses, he made the covenant of the Passover lamb with God as new ordinance, a yearling lamb without spot or blemish and Moses was the most humble man on earth that God spoke directly with him .. Moses couldn't save himself from death, why Moses did you die too ? And God, why did you stand by if you are God and let them die ?
ANYBODY ?

 

[Mattathias]

A great book I read years ago is called "When Jesus Became God" by Richard E. Rubenstein. An historical look at how the Catholics were the first to make Jesus God a good 3 hunfred years after all the Apostles were dead.

I’ve met Professor Rubinstein several times and had the opportunity to discuss this book (and others he has written) with him. He doesn’t go into great detail on the evolution of the doctrine but what he does cover he does so factually. It’s a very good book, in my opinion, and I recommend it to our trinitarian and non-trinitarian readers alike.

 

[Mattathias]

Is that the same Richard E. Rubenstein that writes for Al Jazeera?
I guess he missed a few notes in history concerning the early church and the divinity of Christ .

Polycarp (AD 69-155)
Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal high priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth...and to us with you, and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead.

Ignatius (AD 50-117)

Ignatius, who is also Theophorus, unto her which hath been blessed in greatness through the plentitude of God the Father; which hath been foreordained before the ages to be for ever unto abiding and unchangeable glory, united and elect in a true passion, by the will of the Father and of Jesus Christ our God; even unto the church which is in Ephesus..........
Being as you are imitators of God, once you took on new life through the blood of God you completed perfectly the task so natural to you

Melito of Sardis (died c. AD 180)
He that hung up the earth in space was Himself hanged up; He that fixed the heavens was fixed with nails; He that bore up the earth was born up on a tree; the Lord of all was subjected to ignominy in a naked body—God put to death!...n order that He might not be seen, the luminaries turned away, and the day became darkened—because they slew God, who hung naked on the tree.
All these guys were well before the 300s before the Catholic Church. There are more .
Do some research .
One other question do you believe in the divinity of Christ Jesus?
Blessings
Bill

I don’t know if Rubinstein, a Jew, has written for Al Jazeera or not. What difference does it make if he has?

In your opinion, if a trinitarian has the opportunity to write an article and have it published by Al Jazeera should he take advantage of the opportunity?

Btw, Rubenstein’s focus is primarily on conflict resolution. The more articles published on that subject (by Al Jazeera or anyone else) the better, in my opinion.

 

[Mattathias]

in the old days they had to burn people alive to make it "true".

Of course those barbaric acts didn’t make it true. (Your point.) All it accomplished was to make some men murderers and other men dead, while bringing reproach on their religion and their deity.

 

[Mattathias]

Anything that is true doesn't need defending.

Thank you for this thought provoking comment.

Truth, on all manner of things, is under constant assault in this present evil age. I think anything that is true is worth defending. The issue for me is how best to go about it, when and where to do it.

“a time to be silent and a time to speak” - Ecclesiastes 3:7

 

[Mattathias]

The deity of Christ is a thoroughly Scriptural position. I recommend Forgotten Trinity by James White in this regard, as well as two different books by Stuart Olyott.

What the Bible teaches about the Trinity
What the Bible Teaches About the Person of Christ


Or..you could listen to the cults and their false doctrine like I did for a decade.

By the way, the idea that Roman Catholicism existed in the first three centuries is laughable, and cults are extremely ignorant to make this claim. Rome was a mere bishopric of the apostolic church, and the bishop of Rome at the time of the council of Nicea didn't even attend due to his age. Listening to cults makes a person soft-headed.

I'm so glad God delivered me from those retards.

Do you realize that every trinitarian who calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ is calling upon the name of a unitarian?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Do you realize that every trinitarian who calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ is calling upon the name of a unitarian?

He was a monotheist, but not a "unitarian" in the sense that you are using the word. However, if you want people who will agree with you, check out Islam, Judaism, liberal unitarianism, or other cults.

1. There is only one God (monotheism).
2. The Father is God.
3. Jesus Christ is God.
4. The Holy Spirit is God.
5. These three distinct Persons are co-essential and co-eternal.

Christians are monotheists, but they acknowledge the distinct Personhood of the Triune God.

 

[Sipsey]

Anything that is true doesn't need defending.

Truth has it’s own two feet to stand upon. But, what about sharing that truth? Is that not in a sense, refuting currently held views of reality and presenting a defense for a different reality . Paul was especially adept at refuting false views of God and in doing so was really defending ultimate truth.

 

[Peterlag]

I’ve met Professor Rubinstein several times and had the opportunity to discuss this book (and others he has written) with him. He doesn’t go into great detail on the evolution of the doctrine but what he does cover he does so factually. It’s a very good book, in my opinion, and I recommend it to our trinitarian and non-trinitarian readers alike.

But the greatest book I know of on this topic is "One God & One Lord" written by: John A Lynn, Mark H Graeser, and John W Schoenheit.

 

[Peterlag]

So, where would you go next if that were to happen? Any other websites you recommend?

My knowledge is great and so I come to teach. But there are many on every website who consider themselves to also be experts and yet they know almost nothing concerning the scriptures. It frustrates me that many times I don't even know where to begin with so many babes in Christ who think they know it all. You could look me over if you would enjoy doing so since I wrote my stuff down.
For an in-depth look at the resurrected Christ Jesus...
**link removed**

 

[Laish]

Do you realize that every trinitarian who calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ is calling upon the name of a unitarian?

How is that ?

 

[Mattathias]

Someone asked me the first day if I believe Jesus was God. I did not answer. That was a couple of weeks ago. I could leave any day now because I'm just about done with this site. But thanks for your love.

I’ve been here less than a month. The members here have not been very friendly. How much of that is them (narrow board). How much of that is me (“A man that has friends must himself be friendly” - Prov 18:24, NKJV).

I‘‘ve enjoyed reading your posts and hope you’ll stay here a while.

 

[Mattathias]

How is that ?

That’s a great question!

Who and how many persons does Jesus say his God is?

Who? The Father.

How many persons is the Father? 1.

A person whose God is one person is by definition a unitarian.

Jesus of of Nazareth. Messiah. Son of God. Unitarian.

When anyone calls on the name of this Jesus they are calling on the name of a unitarian.

 

[Mattathias]

He was a monotheist, but not a "unitarian" in the sense that you are using the word. However, if you want people who will agree with you, check out Islam, Judaism, liberal unitarianism, or other cults.

1. There is only one God (monotheism).
2. The Father is God.
3. Jesus Christ is God.
4. The Holy Spirit is God.
5. These three distinct Persons are co-essential and co-eternal.

Christians are monotheists, but they acknowledge the distinct Personhood of the Triune God.

You’re right that Jesus was, is and always will be a monotheist.

Someone will need to demonstrate from scripture that his God is anyone other than the Father alone in order to persuade me that he isn’t by definition unitarian. I hope you’ll be the one to do that for me. If you do, I’ll be forever greatful.

 

[jaybird88]

Of course those barbaric acts didn’t make it true. (Your point.) All it accomplished was to make some men murderers and other men dead, while bringing reproach on their religion and their deity.

you think hundreds of thousands of people being burned alive in front of their loved ones for thousands of years had no effect on people? not sure on that one.
Isaac Newton wrote books on the trinity and why it was not biblical. he kept them in code and hidden because of fear of persecution. so it definitely had an effect on him.

 

[Mattathias]

But the greatest book I know of on this topic is "One God & One Lord" written by: John A Lynn, Mark H Graeser, and John W Schoenheit.

Not that it matters but I once met Lynn and Schoenheit. I’ve read their book. It’s another one that I recommend to trinitarians and non-trinitarians.

Have you read any of the books written by Anthony Buzzard?