Not true. If you are slain because you follow Christ you are a martyr. If you are allow an invader into your house unconfronted, or wife and children abused you are a coward. Being hostile and looking for fights is not Christlike. Christ offered himself as a sacrifice so all may be saved. Allowing myself to be killed so a rapist can satisfy his deviancy with my loved ones serves no greater good. I would expect that if God ever ushered such evil in my direction it would be to extinguish him. God has made all of us for His purposes. Maybe yours is not to punish the wicked. God has made me an instrument to fulfill this task if needed. He inspires me to train for whatever is needed, be it a word or a sword.
The way of our Lord Jesus Christ
- Thread starter MikkoAinasoja
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People who try to take Jesus's words out of context to say they go against other parts of scripture.
Dave L is very very wrong about what loving your enemy means and is in some sort of worldly bondage far from God.
He has demonstrated on multiple occasions lack of love for truth in his many many false accusations and rejection of proper reproof taking the fullness of scripture into context which shows the difference between wrath or violence and upholding justice or defending the helpless or needy.
Dave L is very very wrong about what loving your enemy means and is in some sort of worldly bondage far from God.
He has demonstrated on multiple occasions lack of love for truth in his many many false accusations and rejection of proper reproof taking the fullness of scripture into context which shows the difference between wrath or violence and upholding justice or defending the helpless or needy.
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Already have many times. Feel free to go back an reread.
Your weak and powerless words, false accusations, rejection of context and false imputing of meaning to the words of Jesus are numerous.
Even now you play the weak game "You disagree with what Jesus says if you see this different than I do."
When you have been shown violence in of itself when used in scripture contains malice.
A father stopping his daughter from being raped is justice being brought to injustice. Not violence.
You ignore the scriptures and literally say that Jesus goes against them when He did not.
Every verse needs to be taken into context for a full picture.
Your weak and powerless words, false accusations, rejection of context and false imputing of meaning to the words of Jesus are numerous.
Even now you play the weak game "You disagree with what Jesus says if you see this different than I do."
When you have been shown violence in of itself when used in scripture contains malice.
A father stopping his daughter from being raped is justice being brought to injustice. Not violence.
You ignore the scriptures and literally say that Jesus goes against them when He did not.
Every verse needs to be taken into context for a full picture.
2 timothy 3
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Psalms 82:3
“Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.”
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2555. chamas ►
Wouldn't qualify as how violence was used in scripture.
Psalms 82:3
“Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.”
Psalms 82:4 - Deliver the poor and needy: rid [them] out of the hand of the wicked.
Romans 12:18 - If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Psalms 82:3
“Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.”
_________
2555. chamas ►
Strong's Concordance
chamas: violence, wrongOriginal Word: חָמָס
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: chamas
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-mawce')
Definition: violence, wrong
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from chamas
Definition
violence, wrong
NASB Translation
malicious (3), violence (48), violent (6), wrong
There need not be a drop of malice, in physically defending a child from a rapist.Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: chamas
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-mawce')
Definition: violence, wrong
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from chamas
Definition
violence, wrong
NASB Translation
malicious (3), violence (48), violent (6), wrong
Wouldn't qualify as how violence was used in scripture.
Psalms 82:3
“Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.”
Psalms 82:4 - Deliver the poor and needy: rid [them] out of the hand of the wicked.
Romans 12:18 - If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
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You can believe peace is trying to talk to the man raping your wife and daughter in front of your eyes, and you may sleep very well feeling like you avoided war.
I have been in positions where God put it on my heart to step in and help the helpless even if I get harmed.
He will never push us for "violence" but yes He will push His children to move to help those who need help and deliver them from the hands of those who would harm them.
Your beliefs are not of scripture but of your own false understanding of what scripture says.
You take one or two phrases and act as if Jesus would agree with your conclusions of what His words mean...
He would not.
You cant even provide security for your family.
That is not love for them.
Love is wanting the best for someone, which would include justice when they deserve it. You wouldn't want them to continue harming others in hopes they learn their actions have ramifications and you wouldn't want the defenseless to be harmed, you would want them to be safe.
Feel free to keep going on and on about your worldly views.
I will stick with scripture.
I have been in positions where God put it on my heart to step in and help the helpless even if I get harmed.
He will never push us for "violence" but yes He will push His children to move to help those who need help and deliver them from the hands of those who would harm them.
Your beliefs are not of scripture but of your own false understanding of what scripture says.
You take one or two phrases and act as if Jesus would agree with your conclusions of what His words mean...
He would not.
You cant even provide security for your family.
That is not love for them.
Love is wanting the best for someone, which would include justice when they deserve it. You wouldn't want them to continue harming others in hopes they learn their actions have ramifications and you wouldn't want the defenseless to be harmed, you would want them to be safe.
Feel free to keep going on and on about your worldly views.
I will stick with scripture.
I am going to answer this with all honesty as I type my answer to you...
I have really thought hard about this topic today , and the truth is , I do not know...
I mean , if someone came at me with a gun ( i have been shot when I was unbeliever ) but if it happened again , I believe I would let Gods will be done over my life , I would die without attacking back , but if I was to walk in a room and one of my daughters/granddaughters were being raped , I believe I would attack...
I do not believe I would stand there and try to bring Scripture up , my flesh would of jumped into attack mode , but one thing I do know for sure , I would be on my knees weeping in sorrow before God , and thanking Him for Jesus , my LORD and Savior , who knew this sin is why He died for me...
May I never find myself in such a situation...
I have really thought hard about this topic today , and the truth is , I do not know...
I mean , if someone came at me with a gun ( i have been shot when I was unbeliever ) but if it happened again , I believe I would let Gods will be done over my life , I would die without attacking back , but if I was to walk in a room and one of my daughters/granddaughters were being raped , I believe I would attack...
I do not believe I would stand there and try to bring Scripture up , my flesh would of jumped into attack mode , but one thing I do know for sure , I would be on my knees weeping in sorrow before God , and thanking Him for Jesus , my LORD and Savior , who knew this sin is why He died for me...
May I never find myself in such a situation...
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There is wrath, revenge and violence.
Then there is justice and delivering the helpless from evil.
This man you reply to seems blind and to love lies. Even in his responses to others he twists what others are saying to fit his own arugments.
You're spot on sis.
Trusting Christ doesn't mean to not help those who need help. I have trusted He placed me where He wanted me and helped the weak who would've been abused. It has also brought perspective and shown them they don't need to be a victim, brought sense into the violent person who had normalized their evil ways.
This 0 force nonsense is not of God.
matthew 21
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
john 2 15
And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
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I truly object when people tell that God is not eternal, and He redoes the world He created constantly. Read the first chapter in the gospel of John. Christ is the word and when does it say that word began?
Also, God is not a meek and mild, powerless force. God is a powerful force against anything evil. Unless we are given direct directions from God, we are not to judge people but we are to recognize sin. We are to let God or our secular justice system take care of the punishment of sinning people.
Also, God is not a meek and mild, powerless force. God is a powerful force against anything evil. Unless we are given direct directions from God, we are not to judge people but we are to recognize sin. We are to let God or our secular justice system take care of the punishment of sinning people.
Dave, do you not find it somewhat contary to your position that Jesus commended the faith of a Roman Centurion (army officer) above all else in the city?
He looked back at the friend and then to the elders. Then he turned and scanned his eyes over his disciples and the small crowd of people who had followed him down the mountain. Then he said, loud enough for everyone to hear, "I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith" (Luke 7:9).
Both Luke (Luke 7:9) and Matthew (Matthew 8:10) use the Greek word thaumazo (thou-mad'-zo) which we translate "marveled" or "amazed" to describe Jesus' response to the centurion's faith. The only time this word is used to describe Jesus' response to others' faith is in Mark 6:6, when he marvels at the lack of faith in the people of Nazareth, where he grew up.
The centurion was one the most unlikely persons to amaze Jesus. He was a Gentile. Doubtless he had a pagan upbringing. He was a Roman, stationed in Palestine to subject the Jews to the Emperor's rule. He was a man of war. He achieved the rank of centurion by distinguishing himself above others in the brutal Roman martial arts. Not exactly the résumé you'd expect for becoming one of the Bible's great heroes of faith.
He looked back at the friend and then to the elders. Then he turned and scanned his eyes over his disciples and the small crowd of people who had followed him down the mountain. Then he said, loud enough for everyone to hear, "I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith" (Luke 7:9).
Both Luke (Luke 7:9) and Matthew (Matthew 8:10) use the Greek word thaumazo (thou-mad'-zo) which we translate "marveled" or "amazed" to describe Jesus' response to the centurion's faith. The only time this word is used to describe Jesus' response to others' faith is in Mark 6:6, when he marvels at the lack of faith in the people of Nazareth, where he grew up.
The centurion was one the most unlikely persons to amaze Jesus. He was a Gentile. Doubtless he had a pagan upbringing. He was a Roman, stationed in Palestine to subject the Jews to the Emperor's rule. He was a man of war. He achieved the rank of centurion by distinguishing himself above others in the brutal Roman martial arts. Not exactly the résumé you'd expect for becoming one of the Bible's great heroes of faith.