The way of our Lord Jesus Christ

[Dave-L]

Just another false accuser, lol I see why you stopped responding.

Every single post of his I have read contained one or more

false accusations
assumptions
strawmen
objectively incorrect statement


I will follow your lead.🙄

People like that will always try to get the last word. Fruitless.

Just prove your violence from Jesus' words.

 

[Dave-L]

You show your lack of love for truth so openly....

Prove it from Jesus' words.

 

[OneOfHis]

2 timothy 3
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.




Psalms 82:3

“Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.”


_________


2555. chamas ►

Strong's Concordance​

chamas: violence, wrong

Original Word: חָמָס
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: chamas
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-mawce')
Definition: violence, wrong
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from chamas
Definition
violence, wrong
NASB Translation
malicious (3), violence (48), violent (6), wrong


​

There need not be a drop of malice, in physically defending a child from a rapist.


Wouldn't qualify as how violence was used in scripture.

 

[Dave-L]

2 timothy 3
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.




Psalms 82:3

“Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.”


_________


2555. chamas ►

Strong's Concordance​

chamas: violence, wrong

Original Word: חָמָס
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: chamas
Phonetic Spelling: (khaw-mawce')
Definition: violence, wrong
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from chamas
Definition
violence, wrong
NASB Translation
malicious (3), violence (48), violent (6), wrong


​

There need not be a drop of malice, in physically defending a child from a rapist.


Wouldn't qualify as how violence was used in scripture.

You are using it to ignore Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[melita916]

So in the case of someone breaking into your home and attacks your family, what should a Christian do? Specifically a Christian father who is seeing his family being attacked.

I’m seriously asking. Not mocking the thread.

 

[OneOfHis]

So in the case of someone breaking into your home and attacks your family, what should a Christian do?

I’m seriously asking. Not mocking the thread.

Psalms 82:3

“Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.”
Psalms 82:4 - Deliver the poor and needy: rid [them] out of the hand of the wicked.




Romans 12:18 - If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.


At that point it is no longer possible for anyone who loves their family to leave them in the hands on the wicked.


A christian ought to do whatever they need to for the safety of their families and so that justice is brought.


Imagine doing nothing and literally dying so that injustice prevails and continues...
🤦‍♂️

 

[Dino246]

In the NT believers never used violence to defend themselves. They moved out of the way. The destruction of Jerusalem a classic example when Jesus told them to flee, not fight.

First, the destruction of Jerusalem took place after all the books of Scripture had been written, so you have no example at all. Secondly, the believers did not leave Jerusalem to avoid responding violently; rather, they left because Jesus had warned them to flee from the coming destruction.

 

[Dave-L]

So in the case of someone breaking into your home and attacks your family, what should a Christian do? Specifically a Christian father who is seeing his family being attacked.

I’m seriously asking. Not mocking the thread.

You should try to take the place of the victims and die if necessary. And be willing to suffer violence without resorting to it. There are many alternatives that enable you to love your enemies and stop them as you would have others do unto you if you were them.

 

[Dave-L]

First, the destruction of Jerusalem took place after all the books of Scripture had been written, so you have no example at all. Secondly, the believers did not leave Jerusalem to avoid responding violently; rather, they left because Jesus had warned them to flee from the coming destruction.

But under the new covenant, they did exactly what the Sermon on the Mount calls for.

 

[Dino246]

But under the new covenant, they did exactly what the Sermon on the Mount calls for.

Without an example from Scripture, you have only your opinion for support. In other words, you're making an argument from silence. You are also assuming that the sermon on the mount says anything at all about the defense of others. It doesn't.

 

[christian74]

You should try to take the place of the victims and die if necessary. And be willing to suffer violence without resorting to it. There are many alternatives that enable you to love your enemies and stop them as you would have others do unto you if you were them.

So, three men with guns, broke into your place while all your family was asleep, and tell you that they are going to rape your wife and your children and kill them afterward, you would still do nothing but die instead even you had a chance to stop them? If you die, your wife and children, who are helpless and can't defend themselves, will have to pay and suffer consequences, i.e., being brutally raped and get killed, because you chose not to protect them when you had a chance. Did I summarize your stance correctly?

 

[Dave-L]

So, three men with guns, broke into your place while all your family was asleep, and tell you that they are going to rape your wife and your children and kill them afterward, you would still do nothing but die instead even you had a chance to stop them? If you die, your wife and children, who are helpless and can't defend themselves, will have to pay and suffer consequences, i.e., being brutally raped and get killed, because you chose not to protect them when you had a chance. Did I summarize your stance correctly?

Do you love Jesus more than your family and your life?

 

[christian74]

I'll take that as yes then?
According to your own version of what it means to love your enemy, in that particular situation I described, you should do nothing and let things happen?

 

[Dave-L]

I'll take that as yes then?
According to your own version of what it means to love your enemy, in that particular situation I described, you should do nothing and let things happen?

This shows you think only in terms of violence. Do you have a gun? The peaceful soul thinks of other solutions.

 

[christian74]

This shows you think only in terms of violence. Do you have a gun? The peaceful soul thinks of other solutions.

While I agree, and I would personally suffer consequence for not resorting to violence, but not to the point of letting things happen because I failed to take action. The situation I described is very realistic and happens all the time.

I want to see how far you are willing to stick to your belief.
Again, is your answer yes or no?
I don't own a gun.

 

[Nehemiah6]

How can we proclame his word to love our enemy, if we carry guns and are ready to kill our enemys?

There is a huge difference between wanting to kill others (as a murderer) and carrying a gun (or a weapon) for self defense, or the protection of loved ones. And people should be trained to effectively disable an assailant rather than kill them. These are not necessarily "enemies" since they do not even know their victims.

We have seen many news stories when an innocent homeowner was confronted by a home invader or a criminal and was forced to defend himself or herself. Had they been without a weapon they would have been dead and robbed. You can't show love to anyone if you are lying in a morgue, and your wife and children have been violated.

At one point even Jesus told His disciples to carry a sword. In those days people traveled on roads infested by bandits. Therefore they needed to protect themselves. Sometimes even the presence of a weapon acts as a deterrent.

 

[Dave-L]

While I agree, and I would personally suffer consequence for not resorting to violence, but not to the point of letting things happen because I failed to take action. The situation I described is very realistic and happens all the time.

I want to see how far you are willing to stick to your belief.
Again, is your answer yes or no?
I don't own a gun.

How do we know unless put to the test? I know this, not a sparrow drops to the ground without the Father. But how many deny Christ planning violence that might never happen?

 

[Dave-L]

There is a huge difference between wanting to kill others (as a murderer) and carrying a gun (or a weapon) for self defense, or the protection of loved ones. And people should be trained to effectively disable an assailant rather than kill them. These are not necessarily "enemies" since they do not even know their victims.

We have seen many news stories when an innocent homeowner was confronted by a home invader or a criminal and was forced to defend himself or herself. Had they been without a weapon they would have been dead and robbed. You can't show love to anyone if you are lying in a morgue, and your wife and children have been violated.

At one point even Jesus told His disciples to carry a sword. In those days people traveled on roads infested by bandits. Therefore they needed to protect themselves. Sometimes even the presence of a weapon acts as a deterrent.

The swords were necessary for Jesus to be numbered with the transgressors. Between all of them, they had only two. And Jesus rebuked Peter for using his on people.

 

[christian74]

How do we know unless put to the test? I know this, not a sparrow drops to the ground without the Father. But how many deny Christ planning violence that might never happen?

If you ask me the same question, my answer is I will do whatever it takes to defend my family, including having to kill the intruders, because it's my job. It is one thing to shoot and killing a teenager who broke in to steal, it is another to just sit and do nothing when it is so foreseeable that it is my family who will suffer consequences if I don't act.

 

[Dave-L]

If you ask me the same question, my answer is I will do whatever it takes to defend my family, including having to kill the intruders, because it's my job. It is one thing to shoot and killing a teenager who broke in to steal, it is another to just sit and do nothing when it is so foreseeable that it is my family who will suffer consequences if I don't act.

Where does scripture say this? Does Jesus tell you not to? Yes, in the Sermon on the Mount.